Master Thread: Are measurements Everything or Nothing?

[Sal1950]

This has been going on so long that new engineers don't even know how this whole thing began or why it is bad. They came up as engineers and were taught that this is just the procedure that we now follow.

You seem to not understand there is a line between the creation of music by musicians and engineers //
And the recreation of the final released product, and hearing it in the manner they desired, whether it fits your preferences or not.

 

[Sal1950]

Provide link to FAQ and inform that debating somebody's subjective experiences is useless unless that person has a hypothesis of why the current theory (biases) is insufficient in explaining why difference is heard when it cannot be measured and should not exist.

That's exactly what this thread was created for.

 

[bodhi]

That's exactly what this thread was created for.

It isn't working though.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

It isn't working though.

No as this is the dedicated loony thread to collect all the nonesense which comes in. (The mods shift posts into it which otherwise would pollute other threads).

Plus there will always be a lack of knowledge and propensity to pseudo science or even conspiracy on the internet, so this thread will (unfortunately) live forever. So engage only if you have the nerves to read the often very strange responses (at least that’s what I do as I simply can’t stomach all the nonsense all the time). But thanks for engaging as otherwise these stupid comments would be read as correct by newcomers if not challenged / corrected.

 

[fpitas]

Erm.. No, you don't. It's not possible.

The X Factor. We've been put on notice once again

 

[fpitas]

No as this is the dedicated loony thread to collect all the nonesense which comes in. (The mods shift posts into it which otherwise would pollute other threads).

Plus there will always be a lack of knowledge and propensity to pseudo science or even conspiracy on the internet, so this thread will (unfortunately) live forever. So engage only if you have the nerves to read the often very strange responses (at least that’s what I do as I simply can’t stomach all the nonsense all the time). But thanks for engaging as otherwise these stupid comments would be read as correct by newcomers if not challenged / corrected.

That's the rub, isn't it? We aren't even sure about the sincerity of those spouting the nonsense. But if we don't bat it down, someone might believe it.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

That's the rub, isn't it? We aren't even sure about the sincerity of those spouting the nonsense. But if we don't bat it down, someone might believe it.

Yep. That’s the dilemma.

 

[Galliardist]

But what has this this to do with signal fidelity? Why would anyone want stratospheric amounts of distortion in a HiFi amplifier? Are you suggesting distortion adds fidelity compared to no distortion at all?
Besides, as a guitarist I can tell you that the debate about Solide state and Tubes are very much a matter of person and which tone is desired. Jazz guitarist, as an example, often prefer solid state. Same with heavy metal these days. (All those Marshall Stacks you se behind some heavy rock music guys are in many cases just empty backcloth) Amp modellers are becoming increasingly common, not at least because for many musicians it offer better control over tone in different situations.

The "guitarists use tubes and distortion" thing keeps coming up as justification by some kinds of subjectivists.

I'd just like to point out that a very large number of musicians and singers use vibrato extensively, but nobody has ever suggested that as a result we should all use Leslie speakers as a magic improvement in home audio systems.

Why not? It makes just as much sense.

 

[IPunchCholla]

(All those Marshall Stacks you se behind some heavy rock music guys are in many cases just empty backcloth)

The best sounding (acoustically) rock show I have been to lately was King Buffalo. After the first act spent 20 minutes moving their gear off stage, the guitarist and bassist put iPads on stands, plugged in pedalboards, put in IEMs and were ready to go. They had their own sound guy with his own control board that had at least two mics doing live calibration. Visually it was strikingly minimal. It sounded amazing.

 

[Newman]

The "guitarists use tubes and distortion" thing keeps coming up as justification by some kinds of subjectivists.

Acoustic guitarists and classical string section players all use a highly resonant box or bout to produce rich harmonic tones. Maybe we should aspire to making loudspeaker boxes that way??

 

[Blumlein 88]

Acoustic guitarists and classical string section players all use a highly resonant box or bout to produce rich harmonic tones. Maybe we should aspire to making loudspeaker boxes that way??

No, you can just buy Zu speakers. That is what they do.

 

[DonR]

No, you can just buy Zu speakers. That is what they do.

Any cheap subwoofer will also do that if you crank it enough. Added bonus of plenty of extra harmonic distortion.

 

[NattyLumpkins]

If you want to learn, then there is a thread on this site that may give you much information. It's here:

Recommended reading for new comers and inquisitive minds.

Just a thought , I know we have our technical articles section but how about a recommended reading list for both online content and physical books for new members to read and acquaint themselves with if they so desire. The point being to encourage or to further encourage self education rather...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Notice that the purpose of this thread is to educate yourself in the basics of scientific audio inquiry that has been going on for many years. Some parts are high on the mathematics, but it will address your questions quite sufficiently.

This site also has an Audio Reference section:

Audio Reference Library

Formal educational posts and articles on science and engineering of digital audio. Only site admin can create new threads. But anyone can comment.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Jim

Thanks Jim, do you think anyone here would be interested perusing all the issues of Vacuum Tube Valley? I have them in PDF and could post a link where people or you, could down load them to make them available. I am thinking the answer is no, but I wanted to ask anyway.

 

[GXAlan]

Thanks Jim, do you think anyone here would be interested perusing all the issues of Vacuum Tube Valley? I have them in PDF and could post a link where people or you, could down load them to make them available. I am thinking the answer is no, but I wanted to ask anyway.

VTV is great because it had a combination of history and measurements, so it wasn’t just hand waving

 

[Mulder]

do you think anyone here would be interested perusing all the issues of Vacuum Tube Valley?

It could be interessting on its own merits so to say.

 

[NattyLumpkins]

It could be interessting on its own merits so to say.

Okay I'll put them on one cloud with a public link to download. Where should I post it?

 

[MattHooper]

Acoustic guitarists and classical string section players all use a highly resonant box or bout to produce rich harmonic tones. Maybe we should aspire to making loudspeaker boxes that way??

Seems to possibly work for some designs and some people's goals/taste. ;-)

 

[VQR]

Seems to possibly work for some designs and some people's goals/taste. ;-)

Unironically, there wouldn't be anything wrong with that in an ideal world. Ideally people would be informed they're buying gear for its distortion effects and not as the most transparent gear possible.

 

[henologist]

Okay I'll put them on one cloud with a public link to download. Where should I post it?

Those seem like they'd be great to put on Archive.org.

 

[Newman]

Unironically, there wouldn't be anything wrong with that in an ideal world. Ideally people would be informed they're buying gear for its distortion effects and not as the most transparent gear possible.

You missed the bit where Toole and Olive conducted experiments that show people prefer the lowest colouration. You seem to be living the fantasy that we all have widely disparate and unique tastes in sound reproduction.