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Record breaker: Raphaelite CS30-MKII tube amplifier review and measurements

computer-audiophile

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I believe it's a specific 300B model/SKU, not an amplifier model.
Yes, thank you, probably only this tube is meant. It is higher loadable than a normal 300B tube.
I would still have been interested in exactly what kind of amplifier it was. I always like to get a picture.

It must have had OPT from Sowther, which is a very reputable manufacturer of transformers you can rely on for quality. Long in business. I also used to use OPT from classical manufacturers, or worked effectively with a well known transformer winder in Germany, but he is no longer with us. (R.I.P.)

The good transformers from China have also not been around that long and generally have not been able to establish such a good reputation. However, since I am curious, I like to try out such things.
 
D

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Yes, thank you, probably only this tube is meant. It is higher loadable than a normal 300B tube.
I would still have been interested in exactly what kind of amplifier it was. I always like to get a picture.

It must have had OPT from Sowther, which is a very reputable manufacturer of transformers you can rely on for quality. Long in business. I also used to use OPT from classical manufacturers, or worked effectively with a well known transformer winder in Germany, but he is no longer with us. (R.I.P.)

The good transformers from China have also not been around that long and generally have not been able to establish such a good reputation. However, since I am curious, I like to try out such things.
The amplifier I had is no longer made, this is the replacement model.
 

computer-audiophile

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The amplifier I had is no longer made, this is the replacement model.
Thanks,

could it be this one on the picture?
I was able to get some thoughts on it now based on the description. 21.000 $ is not little. :)

The Art Audio Elise SE 520B obviously uses a special tube that is probably only available from one manufacturer. That would be risky if they don't make them anymore. Tube amps, after all, are normaly usable or repairable for a very long time when you can replace the tubes. I go for the 211 when I want a little more power than a 300B in a DHT SET amp.

Elise_300bxls_stereo_amplifier_884d718e-8147-47a5-8457-d2a1e27efbb4_720x.jpg
 

egellings

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Thanks,

could it be this one on the picture?
I was able to get some thoughts on it now based on the description. 21.000 $ is not little. :)

The Art Audio Elise SE 520B obviously uses a special tube that is probably only available from one manufacturer. That would be risky if they don't make them anymore. Tube amps, after all, are normaly usable or repairable for a very long time when you can replace the tubes. I go for the 211 when I want a little more power than a 300B in a DHT SET amp.

Elise_300bxls_stereo_amplifier_884d718e-8147-47a5-8457-d2a1e27efbb4_720x.jpg
Might be a good idea to load up on a backup supply of the tubes while they are still available.
 
D

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Thanks,

could it be this one on the picture?
I was able to get some thoughts on it now based on the description. 21.000 $ is not little. :)

The Art Audio Elise SE 520B obviously uses a special tube that is probably only available from one manufacturer. That would be risky if they don't make them anymore. Tube amps, after all, are normaly usable or repairable for a very long time when you can replace the tubes. I go for the 211 when I want a little more power than a 300B in a DHT SET amp.

Elise_300bxls_stereo_amplifier_884d718e-8147-47a5-8457-d2a1e27efbb4_720x.jpg
This amp can use 300B-xls or 520B, from EML and a couple of other sources, I think EAT and KR.

I bought one ex-demo when a dealer retired, for a small fraction, enjoyed it, got over it and used solid state ever since.

I do wonder if the apparent failure of Audio Research will dampen the tube-based market, apart from a few well run businesses like Audio Note. They have enough tubes in stock to last out the century.
 

dougi

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GXAlan

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MRC01

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... When people talk about "sweet" treble, where things don't sound bright but the treble has some sort of clarity, we're seeing the signal-dependent treble boost where loud transients will see more enhancement than the softer high frequencies. This isn't sighted bias, but a measureable phenomena that isn't easily reproduced in software.
...
This review should help subjectivists see how science can help translate poorly defined descriptions like "sweet treble" into numbers. Measurements are still good for those of us who trust our ears. ...
This is also a good example of how meaningful measurement can be much more complex that just a number. Sure everything we hear is in principle measurable. But we have to know what to measure, how, and under what conditions. It might be not just a simple number or ratio, but the change in the shape of a curve, under different dynamic conditions.

... To reference the current season of The Mandalorian, I consider myself a walker of both paths in the audiophile hobby: objective and subjective.
This is the way.
:p
 

tomchr

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I agree the hum can't be too bad, but as you pointed out it's certainly prevalent in what we are told is a pleasant sounding design. And striving to get lower distortion and flat response may not actually sound better, depending on what the aficionados are looking for.
Just adding my $0.02 CAD here... Hum is really annoying in amps of any kind. It's annoying to hear hummmmmmmm from the listening position during pauses in the music. Even if it's not so audible from the listening position it creates intermodulation products with the audio. That results in a fuzzy or muffled sound and is pretty obvious in an FFT of the output.

When I designed the DG300B I aimed for hum & noise levels below 1 mV, RMS. I was able to achieve about 0.3 mV RMS by regulating the filament voltage and also the B+ voltage. I still sell the 21st Century Maida Regulator that resulted from that work. I also aimed for low distortion. The tube itself is very linear, but output transformers are not particularly linear devices. The ones for SETs are pretty bandwidth limited as well. You'll never get a ruler flat 20 Hz - 20 kHz amplitude response with an SET.
I ran the 300B pretty hot. 400 V (plate-to-cathode), 85 mA plate current, 5 kΩ plate load. I was able to get to 10 W (3 % THD) with 0.25 % THD at 1 W that way. Many use 360 V, 60 mA, 3600 Ω plate load for the operating point. That supposedly gives more "sweetness" (whatever that means). But you only get a few watt before the THD rises past 1 %. That's not my idea of a good time. That could explain the poor performance of the reviewed amp at 5 W, though. It would be more insightful with a measurement at 1 W.

1 mV hum & noise at the output of a solid state amp would be outrageous. The Hypex/Purifi amps are spec'ed to 100 uV RMS (0.1 mV RMS) and I find that kinda high. My current solid state amp (Modulus-86) measures below 20 uV RMS, unweighted.

Whether you like a squeaky clean amp or not is a personal preference. Some like the "li'l something-something" that the 300B adds to the sound. And I'll admit. It sounds really good on relatively simple music. But if you push it with some more complex music like Joe Satriani "Seven Strings" and nudge the volume knob a bit, you'll probably not be so impressed by the 300B. But not everybody listens to Satriani with the volume cranked to 11. I sunk a lot of money into the 300B design. I had a lot of fun with that. But ultimately I find that a squeaky clean and powerful Class AB amp is the cat's meow - at least for me. We don't all have to like the same stuff.

I exited the tube market because each build requires individualized support. Parts, in particular transformers, are getting harder and harder to find. The Classic-Tone power transformer I used - the only off-the-shelf model that could provide all the voltages I needed - is no longer in production. So it became a huge time sink to support the tube circuit and the little money made did not justify the time spent.

Those who are interested in circuit boards for tube amps should contact George Anderson of Tubelab. Specifically his SSE could be of interest: http://tubelab.com/designs/tubelab-sse/ Note that he's about to retire full-time and will close up shop by the end of 2023. So you might want to order soon.

Tom
 
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computer-audiophile

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It sounds really good on relatively simple music. But if you push it with some more complex music like Joe Satriani "Seven Strings" and nudge the volume knob a bit, you'll probably not be so impressed by the 300B. But not everybody listens to Satriani with the volume cranked to 11.
Hi Tom
Interesting. Unfortunately, mostly people who are not happy with 300B amps have their say here. :);)

Additional question: Which speakers did you use? Is there a picture of an exemplary setup from you?
 

Ken Tajalli

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What am I missing?

22dB is the LOWEST 5W SINAD of any amplifier measured here?

View attachment 280722
That good graphs and bad graphs do not necessarily reflect what we call enjoyable music coming out of a system.
What I see is an amp with insufficient filtering for PSU, but then again it is a SET! so there is no rejection.
Also I see an amp that could be in clipping.
 

pma

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what we call enjoyable music coming out of a system.
... which is absolutely individual and the tastes do differ. SET triode power amplifiers do modify sound in the way that it is not an amplified copy of the captured music signal, it is altered in the way that is audible. It is the fact, objective fact. Some may like it, some not. I am in the camp that does not like SET power amplifier sound for 2 reasons, 1 - not enough power to drive usual speaker with sensitivity 86dB/W/m, 2 - as I listen mostly to classical music produced by philharmonic orchestra, the way the SET amplifiers change the sound and bring their own sound signature is unacceptable, to me. This is my personal opinion and view, completely in accordance with measured results.
 

sarumbear

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That good graphs and bad graphs do not necessarily reflect what we call enjoyable music coming out of a system.
How can I know it is enjoyable for me?
 

fpitas

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Ken Tajalli

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... which is absolutely individual and the tastes do differ. SET triode power amplifiers do modify sound in the way that it is not an amplified copy of the captured music signal, it is altered in the way that is audible. It is the fact, objective fact. Some may like it, some not.
+1
I am in the camp that does not like SET power amplifier sound for 2 reasons, 1 - not enough power to drive usual speaker with sensitivity 86dB/W/m, 2 - as I listen mostly to classical music produced by philharmonic orchestra, the way the SET amplifiers change the sound and bring their own sound signature is unacceptable, to me. This is my personal opinion and view, completely in accordance with measured results.
Only two reasons? :)
Include me.

At the end of the day we are mostly subjective individuals. You only know if you like the sound by extensive listening, OR, just buy a top measuring SS amp, and and convince yourself, this is doing its job correctly and look no further. I am in that camp. I had big heavy OTL valve monoblocks, sounded good too, at 50W was powerful enough for me. But backache problems meant, I couldn't service them no longer, and they do need servicing! They are in storage, with all my spare tubes, testing gear etc.
I now have a Meridian with 100W output, that will do for me nicely, I don't even need to switch it on or off! let alone servicing.
 
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tomchr

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Interesting. Unfortunately, mostly people who are not happy with 300B amps have their say here. :);)
Yeah... Can't we all get along? It's really no skin off of my nose if you like the 300B.

Additional question: Which speakers did you use? Is there a picture of an exemplary setup from you?
When I designed the amp I used KRK R6. I've tried the 300B with the Linkwitz LXmini and KEF R700 as well. I wouldn't recommend the setup shown below, but did have it going in my living room for quite a while during prototyping. :)
DT500_ProtoStereo.jpg


Tom
 

computer-audiophile

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Thanks for the photo. Nice to see! I used to have a HP voltmeter exactly like that, and I also used 300B tubes from JJ. :)

It's clear that you should have high sensitivity speakers for a 300B SET, then the amp is in a low distortion range and doesn't lose track of large orchestral classical material.
 

tomchr

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That good graphs and bad graphs do not necessarily reflect what we call enjoyable music coming out of a system.
The measurements (plural) do capture how the amp treats the incoming signal, though. It's then for you to decide whether you want that treatment or not.

What I see is an amp with insufficient filtering for PSU, but then again it is a SET! so there is no rejection.
Also I see an amp that could be in clipping.
In an SET the ripple on the B+ supply is attenuated by the output transformer. That's typically not much attenuation. 25:1 for 5 kΩ -> 8 Ω. Compare that with 50+ dB (300:1) in a typical chip amp. So you need a squeaky clean power supply. It's also susceptible to hum injection through the filament supply. It's not trivial to design a good SET.

I do agree that the amp in this review has been driven well into clipping. 10% THD is pretty hard clipping. A fair review would test the amp within its design limits.

How can I know it is enjoyable for me?
If you know your preferences you can choose an amp that caters to those. If you prefer squeaky clean, you can choose an amp with low THD, low IMD, low mains hum, ample power, etc. But if you prefer the sound of an SET you could choose an amp with a harmonic distortion structure that caters to that preference. You'd want something with low-order HD where H2 > H3 > H4.

Tom
 
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