KEF R3 meta Measurements

[maty]

No. Again, the difference is huge, at least with KEF's excellent coaxial driver. It is not that hard to do the test yourself, with the tweeter filter. One box and is compared to the other without altering. And two or more people (ears).

A "cheap" bypass cap: CORNELL DUBILIER 940C Film Capacitor 3000V 0,01µF - 5.55 €

CORNELL DUBILIER 940C Film Capacitor 3000V 0,01µF - Audiophonics

This high quality Cornell Dubilier 940C film capacitor incorporates a Polypropylene dielectric and has an electrical capacity of 0.01µF for a voltage of 3000VDC and a tolerance of 10%.

www.audiophonics.fr

BTW, 5 comments, 5 stars.

Can not spend 11 €?

 

[thewas]

Can not spend 11 €?

Cannot spend 10 minutes to do two comparison measurements?

 

[dogmamann]

Cannot spend 10 minutes to do two comparison measurements?

No. Again, the difference is huge, at least with KEF's excellent coaxial driver. It is not that hard to do the test yourself, with the tweeter filter. One box and is compared to the other without altering. And two or more people (ears).

A "cheap" bypass cap: CORNELL DUBILIER 940C Film Capacitor 3000V 0,01µF - 5.55 €

CORNELL DUBILIER 940C Film Capacitor 3000V 0,01µF - Audiophonics

This high quality Cornell Dubilier 940C film capacitor incorporates a Polypropylene dielectric and has an electrical capacity of 0.01µF for a voltage of 3000VDC and a tolerance of 10%.

www.audiophonics.fr

BTW, 5 comments, 5 stars.

Can not spend 11 €?

Unfortunately cannot believe without measurements

 

[maty]

With how entertaining it is to get together with other people, quickly modify a speaker, listen to quality recordings, talk about music equipment, drink and / or eat something ...

Continuing the discussion leads nowhere.

- The End -

 

[thewas]

With how entertaining it is to get together with other people, quickly modify a speaker, listen to quality recordings, talk about music equipment, drink and / or eat something ...

I agree such can be fun but is also very far away from able to give unequivocally verifiable results unless combined with measurements or blinded AB listening tests.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Years ago I was also very skeptical but one day I decided that I would check it for myself, with my KEF Q100 (excellent driver, cheap implementation and with poorly designed front bass-reflex).

First I tried some cheap styroflex capacitors to make the bypass. It improved the sound but not dramatically.

Months later I decided to change them for a Miflex and the difference was SPECTACULAR, as I mentioned at the time in the forums of diyaudio.com (the first test was with Hotel California, Eagles). Then I changed the resistor for a Mills, and it was noticeable but not so much. Old picture below.

Later I made other improvements, such as two layers of viscoelastic material (Tecsound SY70) to minimize vibrations from the cabinet. I was doing the best step by step to verify if they were effective. And...

In short, my modified KEF Q100 sound much better than the originals, much better without any doubt.

Are you saying bypassing a poly cap with a small poly cap makes a dramatic difference? What would be the reason for this?

 

[dogmamann]

With how entertaining it is to get together with other people, quickly modify a speaker, listen to quality recordings, talk about music equipment, drink and / or eat something ...

Continuing the discussion leads nowhere.

- The End -

If the component you replaced has the same value as the Orginal with the same tolerance, it will never sound different. If you heard a difference, it’s not the same value that you replaced it with, which would change the frequency response. Since you altered the cabinet, now there is no point in measurement too, as now we cannot isolate the reason for the change in sound.

 

[Vacceo]

Just going to leave this here:
View attachment 275672

Thank you, Dr. Oclee-Brown, for sharing your knowledge and experience with us. The field of crossover materials is controversial to say the least, and direct hands-on experience is incredibly valuable.

I wonder, however, since you also have experience developing active systems, that once a DSP is applied, all these points become moot? I understand that DSP´s and active systems have their own set of compromises, issues and functionality limitations, like any other system. However, in pure performance terms, is there anything you can do with a traditional crossover that you cannot do in an active system?

 

[maty]

Multitest bookshelf speakers – 2500 Euro – part 3

-> KEF R3 Meta (with measurements)

Multitest bookshelf speakers - 2500 Euro - part 3

Intro Contents 1. Intro2. ATC SCM113. Elac Vela BS4034. KEF R3 Meta5. Monitor Audio Gold 1006. Rounding7. CommentsWe have already reached the final part of this triptych. Finally, we have heard fourteen bookshelf speakers pass by. That’s a lot of speakers. And we tested them not on one but on...

alpha-audio.net

[ There is an issue with the timing of the music though, the bass clearly lags behind mids and highs. The matching with the Nilai is much better than with the Pass Labs. At least the matching of the KEF speakers with an amplifier is critical, but that doesn’t completely eliminate the timing issue.

We don’t know if it’s because the speakers haven’t put in enough hours or if the KEFs’ placement is rather sensitive, but it’s something to consider at home. ]

I think they have the same problem as the old R3: bad integration of the very good coaxial with the woofer.


The old R3, by Erin

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

 

[Shardak]

Multitest bookshelf speakers – 2500 Euro – part 3

-> KEF R3 Meta (with measurements)

Multitest bookshelf speakers - 2500 Euro - part 3

Intro Contents 1. Intro2. ATC SCM113. Elac Vela BS4034. KEF R3 Meta5. Monitor Audio Gold 1006. Rounding7. CommentsWe have already reached the final part of this triptych. Finally, we have heard fourteen bookshelf speakers pass by. That’s a lot of speakers. And we tested them not on one but on...

alpha-audio.net

[ There is an issue with the timing of the music though, the bass clearly lags behind mids and highs. The matching with the Nilai is much better than with the Pass Labs. At least the matching of the KEF speakers with an amplifier is critical, but that doesn’t completely eliminate the timing issue.

We don’t know if it’s because the speakers haven’t put in enough hours or if the KEFs’ placement is rather sensitive, but it’s something to consider at home. ]

View attachment 276652

I think they have the same problem as the old R3: bad integration of the very good coaxial with the woofer.


The old R3, by Erin

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

So the bass "lags behind", but using a different amp is supposed to correct this issue? Sounds like a typical hi-fi reviewer to me....

"We don’t know if it’s because the speakers haven’t put in enough hours"

^ I think "we" definitely know that is nonsense

 

[maty]

So the bass "lags behind", but using a different amp is supposed to correct this issue? Sounds like a typical hi-fi reviewer to me....

"We don’t know if it’s because the speakers haven’t put in enough hours"

^ I think "we" definitely know that is nonsense

Old KEF R3, by Erin
https://erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r3

-> Shadow Flare Position Impact on Frequency Response

[ While using the speakers full-range is OK, I found that when I added a subwoofer (SVS SB-2000 Pro and SB-3000, separately), the entire sound became immensely more enveloping. Somehow, it even seems to increase the overall sense of “space” these speakers provide with the right recording. For that reason, I do suggest a subwoofer with these speakers. I suggest a crossover in the neighborhood of 60-80Hz. I’ve had good luck with the SVS subwoofers I’m currently reviewing and with their built-in DSP, I was able to resolve a couple room modes easily and take the system to a new level of fidelity.

and

*** Make sure to push the trim rings all the way in. ***]

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Old KEF R3, by Erin
https://erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r3

-> Shadow Flare Position Impact on Frequency Response

[ While using the speakers full-range is OK, I found that when I added a subwoofer (SVS SB-2000 Pro and SB-3000, separately), the entire sound became immensely more enveloping. Somehow, it even seems to increase the overall sense of “space” these speakers provide with the right recording. For that reason, I do suggest a subwoofer with these speakers. I suggest a crossover in the neighborhood of 60-80Hz. I’ve had good luck with the SVS subwoofers I’m currently reviewing and with their built-in DSP, I was able to resolve a couple room modes easily and take the system to a new level of fidelity.

and

*** Make sure to push the trim rings all the way in. ***]

What does the assembly problem of the shadow flare ring have to do with your previous claim of alleged „lagging“ bass and woofer integration?

Nothing. Dude you are fantasizing with your baseless assumptions and claims. Real science please not pseudo one.

And the audio babble of „space increase“ in your quote is just that - babble. No substance, no science.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Old KEF R3, by Erin
https://erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r3

-> Shadow Flare Position Impact on Frequency Response

[ While using the speakers full-range is OK, I found that when I added a subwoofer (SVS SB-2000 Pro and SB-3000, separately), the entire sound became immensely more enveloping. Somehow, it even seems to increase the overall sense of “space” these speakers provide with the right recording. For that reason, I do suggest a subwoofer with these speakers. I suggest a crossover in the neighborhood of 60-80Hz. I’ve had good luck with the SVS subwoofers I’m currently reviewing and with their built-in DSP, I was able to resolve a couple room modes easily and take the system to a new level of fidelity.

and

*** Make sure to push the trim rings all the way in. ***]

??
Whats the relation between the shadow flare and the “lag” xD

 

[nygafre]

I’m interested to know the reason why the reviewers would make such an explicit comment about ‘lagging’ bass?

What are they possibly referring to? (.. I’m assuming they are mistaken )

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Im interested too, since often some people came with the Impulse response, so this is a perfect situation for us, i would love to see what @jackocleebrown think about this

Sadly everytime i see that graphs, nobody also have the Kef reference graph... that guy havent measure the references.
For example i see often people saying the '' woofer '' don't stop '' fast '' enough but the atc show the same thing..

https://alpha-audio.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/ATC-SCM11-impulse-1m-straight.png

Vela too

https://alpha-audio.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Elac-Vela-BS403-impulse-straight-3ms.png

There is a impulse response compasion between the references and the R?, all of the people talking about the slow / lag drivers is because they have or see that thing and compare with other speakers/configuration that shows a different behavior

Cheers

 

[abdo123]

Every speaker KEF has made since 2018 has been basically a perfect point source this talk of lagging bass is nonsense.

 

[dogmamann]

Multitest bookshelf speakers – 2500 Euro – part 3

-> KEF R3 Meta (with measurements)

Multitest bookshelf speakers - 2500 Euro - part 3

Intro Contents 1. Intro2. ATC SCM113. Elac Vela BS4034. KEF R3 Meta5. Monitor Audio Gold 1006. Rounding7. CommentsWe have already reached the final part of this triptych. Finally, we have heard fourteen bookshelf speakers pass by. That’s a lot of speakers. And we tested them not on one but on...

alpha-audio.net

[ There is an issue with the timing of the music though, the bass clearly lags behind mids and highs. The matching with the Nilai is much better than with the Pass Labs. At least the matching of the KEF speakers with an amplifier is critical, but that doesn’t completely eliminate the timing issue.

We don’t know if it’s because the speakers haven’t put in enough hours or if the KEFs’ placement is rather sensitive, but it’s something to consider at home. ]

View attachment 276652

I think they have the same problem as the old R3: bad integration of the very good coaxial with the woofer.


The old R3, by Erin

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Kef R3 Bookshelf Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

There is no such thing as “timing” it’s a myth. Check the distortion of the speaker, it’s clean as it can possibly be. Lagging is nonsense, it’s just means it has more extension. The more it’s extended the slower the drivers move and it should sound “slower”

 

[Alexx]

I hear nothing by ear.... no bass delay

In a few days I'll compare them with the new R3 Meta.
See you soon.

 

[maty]

 

[nygafre]

There is no such thing as “timing” it’s a myth. Check the distortion of the speaker, it’s clean as it can possibly be. Lagging is nonsense, it’s just means it has more extension. The more it’s extended the slower the drivers move and it should sound “slower”

Thank’s, that makes perfect sense