Calculation voltage and power - gain and loss - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin
Calculation: Voltage and Power - Gain and Loss - Eberhard Sengpiel sengpielaudiowww.sengpielaudio.com
So… still proves that the Aiyima is louder?
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Topping PA5 Review (Amplifier)
- Thread starter amirm
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So… still proves that the Aiyima is louder?
It proves that giving the same source the Aiyima is louder, no? Which is what I said in my first impression and people called my crazy!
So, if “underpowered” is not the “technically correct word” for it, what would it be? Please correct my english
It proves that Aiyima has bigger gain. In plain words, for the same input signal yes it is louder. Not the same as "more powerful" though. But your subjective reaction is correct.
I can't tell if you are intentionally trolling or just having a hard time grasping the concepts. Maybe this will help, here is a table that shows power output vs E50 volume position for the PA5 and A07. Both of these amplifiers are good for about 50 W @ 8 ohm. As you can see both will reach this maximum power but at different volume positions. Again, at a given volume position the A07 will always sound louder, however you can use a higher volume position with the PA5 than the A07 in order to achieve the same power output.
Michael
Michael
No
Think of it this way. You try two cars. Both have 200HP engines (same power right?)
But the mechanics of the accelerator pedal are different. On one you get full power when you half press the accelerator - beyond that you get no extra power, on the other you have to press the pedal to the floor to get full power.
Is one underpowered compared to the other?
Think of your input volts into the amp as being like the accelerator position.
Bear in mind one amp has RCA inputs which are only designed to accept a maximum of two volts. The other has balanced connectors designed to accept 4 volts.
And all your condescending answers and inability to understand that when I am using the E50 on the PA5 I am NOT using the TRS to RCA cable (obviously) and that is just to compare with the Aiyima 07 proves that not just you don't read properly and don't understand what a TRS to RCA cable does (which is very common on pro audio gear), but you don't want to help.
I am not trolling at all and I am actually very happy with all the explanations and answers, and I understand now far better, thanks! And I also understood that my use of the word "power" (in "underpowered") was incorrect and imprecise.
My main concern that I had, and honestly this graph of yours just helped me a lot to understand that probably it is not a concern anymore, was if my PA5 was broken or something because I felt it was very quiet compared to the A07 that, in theory, should be similar (but now I know it shouldn't).
Thanks a lot for your detailed explanation
tvrgeek
Major Contributor
You want something for nothing? Heck, I want a Benchmark for $100. Ain't gonna happen. Those readings are phenomenal!
Do you understand it?
What is it doing? is T and R shorted or R and S or is R floating.
tvrgeek
Major Contributor
I know, take one of these, put it in a big box with a few bricks. Make up a name and story about a new startup and deliver it to Stereophile claiming a prototype not in the final case.
tvrgeek
Major Contributor
Darn this forum. I might have to buy one just to see. Maybe Toppig can redeem themselves in my eye after the D30pro. Sold my old OPPO and Nak today so I have some cash.
I am too lazy to try to search the forums what happened to you with a D30pro?
MarkWinston
Addicted to Fun and Learning
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And this is why volume knob position isnt a useful comparison.
steve-z
Member
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steve-z
Member
It may not have the power of the PA5 and it’s only got a single input and 20watts into 4ohms
but the sound and build quality is superb for £129 including a high output low noise PSU.
but the sound and build quality is superb for £129 including a high output low noise PSU.
When you tell some jerk is condescending he does an even MORE condescending jerk question, unbelievable. Sometime the Internet amazes me with it's ability to show off people real colors.
I will answer your dumb statement for the last time:
1) Yes, I DO understand it. I don't know exactly how the electronics of specific power amplifiers work (and that is why I asked for help) but I understand the way electronics in audio work (I know a little of sound engineering and I am a musician myself). So, as expected (and you should know that before asking over and over), the R (Ring) is shorted to S (Sleeve) so it is grounded (so, referenced). Therefore, the balanced nature still works but drops the "inverted" (or opposite polarity signal) to ground. Therefore, on the RCA side you just get the ground reference and the positive (or non-inverted or regular polarity signal) as you should.
2) I also tested the E50 SE (RCA) outputs too, that was my obvious first test. Same result (as expected too since the E50 outputs 4Vrms on the balanced and 2Vrms 0n the SE). I just tested the TRS to RCA cable later to CONFIRM it was the same.
3) Last time I said it: when I connect the E50 to the PA5 I used a full balanced TRS to TRS cable, as expected and designed by the manufacturer. I only used the TRS to RCA cable to connect to the A07 amp (which is SE only) to test the discrepancy in volume I originally heard (and it was proven that I actually heard because of the gain difference since the voltage out of the amps is more than double).
4) Explain to me electronically what difference would make if R is floating or shorted to S? Explain to me how that would change my results. In both cases the amp in question, which is an SE only (Aiyima 07) would just care about the signal and the ground reference, am I right?
Explain me why not. I understand the concept of gain and distortion, but, for me a basic "scientific experiment" consists and keep all variables except one immutable and compare the results, and then figure it out the reason of the results. In my case, my original impression (that was proven to be right) was that the PA5 was weaker (less loud, quieter, whatever wording you want) than the Aiyima 07. People called me crazy. Numbers proven that is the case.
Now I know, thanks to far more useful answers here, that the difference I heard was because of the gain. Nice, now I know. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? Telling a fact (I heard one amp louder than the other), use numbers to figure it out why and understand the reason behind it? Isn't that science?
I understand that volume knob position isn't a useful comparison for effective power vs distortion or other more advanced measurements. But it is definitely a useful tool to compare two different amp topology behaviors, isn't it?
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