YouTube Audio Reviewer Tier List - Jan 2023 Edition

[IAtaman]

Fyi there's an old book on TV by Jerry Mander (his real name, amusing for a sometimes politico like me) called Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television.

I just watched DMS's review of HE-1 just now and could not help thinking of the television makes it so that people have no common sense quote from the Wiki link you shared. Holy moly.

So Resolve and Mad_Economist represent the science, engineering side on headphones.com channel and DMS and GoldenSound are the gear worship side - is that how it works?

 

[DACslut]

Toids DIY Audio

https://www.youtube.com/@Toid/videos

 

[GaryH]

I just watched DMS's review of HE-1 just now and could not help thinking of the television makes it so that people have no common sense quote from the Wiki link you shared. Holy moly.

So Resolve and Mad_Economist misrepresent the science, engineering side on headphones.com channel and DMS and GoldenSound are the gear worship side - is that how it works?

FTFY

 

[markanini]

Hps.com's associates can be scientifically knowledgeable, or not. But if they operate in this grey area where they don't disclose on who's behalf they do audio journalism, and reach out on social media and fourms, larping as freelancers, it raises questions.

 

[Axo1989]

I just watched DMS's review of HE-1 just now and could not help thinking of the television makes it so that people have no common sense quote from the Wiki link you shared. Holy moly.

So Resolve and Mad_Economist represent the science, engineering side on headphones.com channel and DMS and GoldenSound are the gear worship side - is that how it works?

I'm glad you found the quote apropos, it's a great little book. But I don't do YT reviews enough to get the references there (beyond a few GoldenSounds I've seen via hate-links from here). I might look them up now out of curiosity, meanwhile I'll take your word for it though.

 

[isostasy]

This is hilarious! Can you generate one for a negative review?

It would still sound positive because WhatHifi doesn't review anything below 3* from what I can see, and then even rarely.

This is what confounds me most about WhatHifi. If they wanted to write flowery rubbish about their favorite products, whatever. But they don't, they write flowery rubbish about almost everything they 'review', rendering their own rating system redundant. As a consumer seeking clarity, wouldn't you see the wall of 5* ratings and instantly think 'well I'm not going to read these because there's nothing to differentiate them'?

I just watched DMS's review of HE-1 just now and could not help thinking of the television makes it so that people have no common sense quote from the Wiki link you shared. Holy moly.

So Resolve and Mad_Economist represent the science, engineering side on headphones.com channel and DMS and GoldenSound are the gear worship side - is that how it works?

I thought of sharing it here but can't think up a decent response and don't just want to drive engagement. It almost feels like rage bait at this point, some of the things he says are so ridiculous.

 

[Axo1989]

I just watched DMS's review of HE-1 just now and could not help thinking of the television makes it so that people have no common sense quote from the Wiki link you shared. Holy moly.

So Resolve and Mad_Economist represent the science, engineering side on headphones.com channel and DMS and GoldenSound are the gear worship side - is that how it works?

Ok I found them and had a listen. It's still YT so I'm probably not going to immerse myself on the regular. The idea of pointing a camera (even worse, at myself) and yammering on about audio stuff as a way of life is so first-world that ... yeah blablabla. I didn't really like DMS's persona but you may have to DM me some thoughts about the HE-1 review, it didn't strike me excessively negatively either (but also I'm good with the @MattHooper school of subjective-descriptions-can-be-informative, rather than the hardcore SINAD-inista crew's oh-god-the-words-they-burn thing). I did like Chrono's pieces with 'normal' peeps doing the headphone and audiophile terms stuff with little blindfolds on. That was fun.

 

[GXAlan]

It would still sound positive because WhatHifi doesn't review anything below 3* from what I can see, and then even rarely.

Interestingly, I found this

What Hi-Fi? star ratings explained: the logic behind every review score

We explain the abiding star rating system that is at the forefront of every What Hi-Fi? review

www.whathifi.com

3 stars: “This is a case where we would certainly consider the product if it were available at a chunky discount, say at least a third off the full retail price. At that point, it could represent good value.”

Which really makes it hard to go below 3 stars.

4 stars: “We may stop short of awarding a product the full five-star set because it lacks a particular feature we believe to be important to many, but if that doesn’t apply to you then the omission won’t be an issue

Don’t routinely ignore four-star products; they could actually be perfect for your needs and, depending on your requirements, may even be a better choice for you than a five-star one.”

5 stars: We consider it to be one of the class leaders in its field at its price point… Overall, we think of a five-star product as a safe recommendation; something that will likely please most people most of the time.

—-
This is really odd.

3 stars means something is so bad it has to be 33% off retail to consider. Makes sense why you don’t see 1’s and 2’s.

5 stars means that in any given price point, most people will be happy most of the time. That seems like a low bar to set.

But understanding these guidelines, the 3/4/5 makes sense to me.

 

[IAtaman]

The idea of pointing a camera (even worse, at myself) and yammering on about audio stuff as a way of life is so first-world that ... yeah blablabla.

Very true. On the other hand, I do spend time and money worrying about things like which headphone measurement system is most accurate, and how to EQ my speakers for best spatial effects and timbre, and whether Class D amps can drive reactive loads as well as Class A/B amps and such, so I am not sure whether I should be throwing any first-world stones to YouTubers. Also, being able to create stories, influence others and build communities seems to be the super power that allowed us humans to build the first-world some of us live in, so maybe at its core, it is also quite fundamental and natural?

I didn't really like DMS's persona but you may have to DM me some thoughts about the HE-1 review, it didn't strike me excessively negatively either (but also I'm good with the @MattHooper school of subjective-descriptions-can-be-informative, rather than the hardcore SINAD-inista crew's oh-god-the-words-they-burn thing). I did like Chrono's pieces with 'normal' peeps doing the headphone and audiophile terms stuff with little blindfolds on. That was fun.

It was not the subjective descriptions of the review that I found lacking common sense. Quite the opposite funnily enough - it was the crying, drama, the advertisement of not being able to find words to describe the experience I found utterly senseless - all for a device that's main purpose is reproduce an experience we have all had!

Part of this hobby is, and has always been about gear, I get that, I don't mind that, but this level of gear worship feels a bit too childish at best or fake at worst to me.

 

[ta240]

I certainly get the "youtube is ruined" vibe especially from the home page and all the "trending videos" etc, which exhibit much of what you describe. Seems like a certain golden age is in the past.

That said, I often use youtube for music and last night I was watching performances from The Prodigy - a band I've always liked, never seen, and it was glorious to be able to watch all sorts of live performances, on my big projection screen in glorious surround (upconverted) sound. As annoying as youtube can be, I still find it extremely valuable.

Youtube is much the same as the overall internet; 98% worthless filler and 2% useful. As the overall volume of content increases it just makes it harder to find actual useful information. Like searching for real product tests and reviews and just finding page after page of "here are links to Amazon where I get a kickback, but I haven't tested any of these"

Most of the time when I go to youtube I use a private browser window (and VPN) and its standard, no viewing history, recommendations make me truly sad for humanity. The number of views that some of this junk gets (and I'm sure many of the views are the people swerving around on the road in front of me).
Unfortunately, the useless crap gets views so that is what people make. With instant access to analytics they make each subsequent video with more of what I think is stupid because that is what gets views. I think it is required that every audio channel makes a video about Bose.
Look at 5 minute crafts, Ann Reardon from How to Cook That has shown that most of theirs are staged and best case don't work, but worst case can injure or kill someone yet they have exponentially more views than she does. And when she contacts youtube to say "people have been severely injured trying to do what is in this video" and includes news stories about it; youtube says it is fine because they are making loads of money off all those views. There is actually a video from someone about making a phone charger that is a solid block of metal from a mold with plugs shaped in it that can plug into the wall.

There was an old MadTV skit where the actors of a sitcom were connected to devices that would shock them if the audience didn't like where the story was going. By the end, the girls were all in bikinis playing volleyball in the living room and if they even talked about stopping they got shocked. In most cases Youtube's instant feedback has gotten us the most vapid entertainment possible.
Somehow, somewhere enough people find Andrew Robinson making his faces like he's talking to a confused child and Darko looking like he is lecturing his girlfriend on which way the toilet paper should go for the 20th time to be endearing.

Possibly even worse though is when I go to youtube when they can see a viewing history and it is like this. You watched one video on this so here are 20,000 more!!!! It finally made sense how seemingly sane people I know become fanatics about things; all they see are videos about how ants are really government controlled robots sent to eat your sugary foods before you can.

 

[Axo1989]

Very true. On the other hand, I do spend time and money worrying about things like which headphone measurement system is most accurate, and how to EQ my speakers for best spatial effects and timbre, and whether Class D amps can drive reactive loads as well as Class A/B amps and such, so I am not sure whether I should be throwing any first-world stones to YouTubers. Also, being able to create stories, influence others and build communities seems to be the super power that allowed us humans to build the first-world some of us live in, so maybe at its core, it is also quite fundamental and natural?

Well yes I spend way more time than the average on music reproduction, which is why I trailed off into " ... yeah blablabla" of course. Not really going to give myself or anyone reading here a lecture. And certainly on the positive side human ability to hyper-focus on a thing and develop it is behind much of what we regard as civilisation.

It was not the subjective descriptions of the review that I found lacking common sense. Quite the opposite funnily enough - it was the crying, drama, the advertisement of not being able to find words to describe the experience I found utterly senseless - all for a device that's main purpose is reproduce an experience we have all had!

Makes sense, I was prepared for the worst, so when his descriptions of sonics were somewhat sensible it wasn't as crap as I anticipated. But those histrionics, yeah, I wrote them off under "his persona" and didn't plan to watch often or ever again really. Over-dramatisation isn't my thing. The medium and platform push content and style that way, as @ta240 elaborates above.

 

[Jeromeof]

I know he was mentioned a few times already but I thought I would post the CheapAudioMa latest video here as he actually recommends that his viewers to go over to ASR and check out the measurements. One of the rare times I think when a 'mainstream' 'subjective' reviewer actually recommends ASR:

 

[MattHooper]

This guy kills me. "OCD Hi-Fi Guy"

Maybe a swell guy in person, and I actually do appreciate some of his content, for the gear. But on video a combo of every audiophile/dealer blowhard I ever met.

He's doing a "hi-fi for dummies" series explaining what you need to know about high end gear, and he's always playing the whistle-blower on "hi-fi" bs trying to
save you from wasting your money, while being as nose deep in to the high end mania as you get.

Classic example is here (96 seconds in) he's explaining the ways high end companies bamboozle you with parts and technical claims, and don't fall for it, then it cuts to
his gear, a (very expensive boutique) computer sitting hilariously on crazy looking isolation spikes:

Even better, here he talks about companies he would associate with (for selling his cables) and those he would not. Of course it is the inevitable Audiophile Purity Test:
He's just in it for the music...not the gear! I literally laughed out loud when he said he has nothing in common with "gear junkies" while being surrounded in gear, and running a youtube channel all about the gear:

A little self awareness would go a long way with some of these folks, but I guess that may also dent some of their wacky appeal.

 

[IAtaman]

Resolve's take on HE-1 as well measurements, both with B&K and GRAS.

I found that to be a sensible, no nonsense review. No childih drama, no crying, no gear worship just a good review. With the help of the contrast DMS and Goldensound is creating Resolve is becoming the sound of reason and audio science in headphones.com YT channel in my opinion.

 

[Axo1989]

Resolve's take on HE-1 as well measurements, both with B&K and GRAS.

I found that to be a sensible, no nonsense review. No childih drama, no crying, no gear worship just a good review. With the help of the contrast DMS and Goldensound is creating Resolve is becoming the sound of reason and audio science in headphones.com YT channel in my opinion.

Crikey, Snarky Puppy and Tingvall Trio, you don't need an HE-1 for that stuff, just an elevator. But today I also discover Carpenter Brut. Ok I still prefer breakbeat/hardcore-flavoured zombie techno to the zombie disco flavour, but interesting nonetheless. The very initial intro is promising, must check further.

Spoiler: gratuitous/tangential zombie comparo

https://soundcloud.com/carpenter_brut%2Fdisca-zombi-italio
https://soundcloud.com/swanmeat%2Fcygnet-zombey-dance
*hmmm embedded Soundcloud behaviour keeps changing, this time I have to dismiss the popover and hit play again, whatevs

They should have dubbed in the segments he was listening to just for context. Musical focus aside I agree, good informative discussion. Like the headphone "normal, but great".

 

[IAtaman]

Hardcore-flavoured zombie techno. Interesting. Is this the "death metal" of electronic music?

 

[Axo1989]

Hardcore-flavoured zombie techno. Interesting. Is this the "death metal" of electronic music?

You can judge for yourself (assuming Soundcloud plays for you) but personally I think both zombi/zombey examples are more upbeat/light-hearted than death-anything (Disco Zombi Italia was listened to in the headphone review video of course, even though we didn't get to hear it there). I'm not so much into regular metals myself, but I do like the odd bit of deathcore. Fairy metal can be good too.

 

[Cbdb2]

There is one YT reviewer that when reviewing microphones his wife, daughter and himself reads from a text that is the same over the reviews under the same/similar conditions, and normalized to LUFS -23. He is also a video professional.

In that case I’d say one gets some impression of how the microphone sounds for spoken word, but of course, in the end we’ve to try it out ourselves.

It’s interesting to note how the same microphone is more flattering to one person over the other.

I hope the mic distance and angle are consistant or all bets are off.
Thats why studios have a half dozen "vocal" mics.

 

[Trell]

I hope the mic distance and angle are consistant or all bets are off.
Thats why studios have a half dozen "vocal" mics.

My impression is that he is trying to keep it consistent.

 

[egellings]

Crikey, Snarky Puppy and Tingvall Trio, you don't need an HE-1 for that stuff, just an elevator. But today I also discover Carpenter Brut. Ok I still prefer breakbeat/hardcore-flavoured zombie techno to the zombie disco flavour, but interesting nonetheless. The very initial intro is promising, must check further.

Spoiler: gratuitous/tangential zombie comparo

https://soundcloud.com/carpenter_brut%2Fdisca-zombi-italio
https://soundcloud.com/swanmeat%2Fcygnet-zombey-dance
*hmmm embedded Soundcloud behaviour keeps changing, this time I have to dismiss the popover and hit play again, whatevs

They should have dubbed in the segments he was listening to just for context. Musical focus aside I agree, good informative discussion. Like the headphone "normal, but great".

60 grand for headphones, 1 pair? Whew!