Yamaha RX-A3080 Review (AVR)

[krabapple]

And let's remember the totally broken architecture here where internal amps are allowed to suck power, clip and shut down the unit when you are trying to use an external amplifier. It is measurement and kind of testing I do that brings such deficiencies up.

That's one way to look at it. Another is that this AVR (features off) will likely sound no different from any others in a proper DBT, or in typical use cases . Using it as an external amp is not a typical use case for buyers of a device like this.

So like pretty much everything in this category, you buy it or not according to how loud you want to cleanly play music/movies, and what features you like.

You're doing god's work to hold makers accountable for flaws in their designs, but let's not be fanatical.

 

[EEE272]

If you are talking about Gene's review on the RX-A6A, that 100 dB SINAD cannot be compared to Amir's because Amir did not do the same test.

Gene's 100 dB SINAD (0.001%) was obtained at the pre amp output at +1 dBV, that is 1 Volt rms, using analog input in pure direct mode. I agree that is good result, but it is not an apple to apple comparison with Amir's 81.8 dB SINAD was measured at the power amp output at 5 W, not the same tests at all. Also, as you already know, the two devices are different. If Gene measured the 3080, I suspect he would have gotten results similar to ASR's.

Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K AV Receiver Bench Test Results!

We bench tested the Yamaha RX-A6A 9.2CH 8K 150watt/ch Atmos/DTS:X Receiver to gauge power output and uncover performance issues we discovered. We discuss the proper settings for best power delivery.

www.audioholics.com

Thanks for your answer.
I thought the first test that Amir did is the pre out to test only the DAC.

Amir said "As usual, I started to measure the DAC portion by using the pre-amp output, only to be punched in the face by the AVR going into protection mode. "
In my test, I used the preout, was that wrong to test the DAC?
Should I have measured with a load at the loudspeakers? Then I don't understand Amir's comment that they should add an option to shut down the amps.

I mentioned Gene because I thought that the preout would always perform better than the test with a load at the loudspeaker output - or is that really not the case?
Sorry for all the potentially dumb questions...

Edit: I think I got it now! Amir mentioned the DAC test but only reported on the one with the 4 Ohm load. That test, I can unfortunately not do.
Fortunately, having a peak at 120 Hz is not the worst. Our hearing requires 25dB at that frequency, which means to reach the audible threshold, we would have to be at reference level volume and in a fully quiet environment. Unlikely to happen.

 

[Dj7675]

Using it as an external amp is not a typical use case for buyers of a device like this.

A top of the line receiver with XLR preouts ... not typical use case? Obviously not everyone will use them, but they are built in the design. To not be able to do so without shutting down is a design flaw. You can get around it by choosing an amp that can be fully driven with around 2V, but should you be limited in your amp choice when buying an external amp?

 

[amirm]

1) The receiver offers several DACs. By default, the worst one (according to Gene) called "short latency" is activated. What happens when choosing "sharp" (the best according to Gene)?
Does it make a change in the results when you switch it?

Those are names for different filters on the same DAC. Did he say this was available on 3080? I didn't know this was. Regardless, no it won't make a difference in these measurements and in general.

 

[amirm]

3) I think the amps cannot be deactivated but what happens to the measurements via pre-out when using ECO mode - it seems unnecessary to run the amplifier at full power in this case and if the main problem really stems from the power supply, this might be a way to reduce its effect - although it might shut down even earlier (?!)

I have tested ECO mode in the past and it does not help with amplifier shut down. Good theory though.

 

[amirm]

Edit: I think I got it now! Amir mentioned the DAC test but only reported on the one with the 4 Ohm load.

No, no. This review only measured the amplifier. Usually I measure the DAC as well in AVRs but in this case, the amp interfered and seeing how the owner's interest was the amplifier, that is what I focused on. So everything you see is amplifier performance. DAC is not involved.

 

[EEE272]

Those are names for different filters on the same DAC. Did he say this was available on 3080? I didn't know this was. Regardless, no it won't make a difference in these measurements and in general.

They are available on the 3080. It offers the same filters (indeed, you are right!) as the a6a - including the same names. It can be found in the menu "sound->DAC digital filter", where they also offer the "Ultra low jitter pll mode". Gene tested the 3 filters and said that "sharp" measured best.

I tried to hear a difference between these settings without any success.

 

[EEE272]

I have tested ECO mode in the past and it does not help with amplifier shut down. Good theory though.

Would it help with the Sinad?
Because it might offset the PS noise slightly? Of course, it would imply that you cannot listen at high volumes anymore.

 

[Momotaro]

The bell of the ball in an AVR is amount of power it has ...

I know this is an audio site, but that's belle, not bell.

 

[DamianW]

Why do you say it shares the same amplification as this years model?

I ask as the new range ie the RX-A6A (which I thought was this years model) use different internal amplifiers. Yamaha claim to have made their own custom devices with an additional leg and in built temperature sensor as the devices they have used for about 30 years are no longer in production.

This is last year's model and motivation for testing was that it shares the same amplification as this year's models which have very different interface. Current price for this unit is $1,999.

 

[amirm]

Why do you say it shares the same amplification as this years model?

My bad. I don't know for sure. That's what I was told by the owner.

 

[peng]

My bad. I don't know for sure. That's what I was told by the owner.

No one knows for sure but there is a good chance that the owner may be right even just by taking a guess, or he might actually know something that we don't...

 

[krabapple]

A top of the line receiver with XLR preouts ... not typical use case? Obviously not everyone will use them, but they are built in the design. To not be able to do so without shutting down is a design flaw. You can get around it by choosing an amp that can be fully driven with around 2V, but should you be limited in your amp choice when buying an external amp?

Every AVR I've ever owned -- two decades' worth -- had connectivity options that I never used. I've never used any of my AVRs solely as preamps or as power amps. I'm pretty sure most people buy full featured multichannel AVRs like this to use as the head unit of their (primarily HT) system. Others would tend to just buy separates.

(Using such DSP-packed devices as *amps* only - rather than as processors -- strikes me as particularly bizarre.)

 

[peng]

Every AVR I've ever owned -- two decades' worth -- had connectivity options that I never used. I've never used any of my AVRs solely as preamps or as power amps. I'm pretty sure most people buy full featured multichannel AVRs like this to use as the head unit of their (primarily HT) system. Others would tend to just buy separates.

(Using such DSP-packed devices as *amps* only - rather than as processors -- strikes me as particularly bizarre.)

Generally true, except I would think that more and more people are using the Denon AVRs as preamp/processor only (like I am) in the last 2-4 years because of the improved pre out performance as found by AH and ASR (mostly ASR). Before Covid, one can get a last year model for hundreds of dollars less than the Marantz AV series and the Yamaha CX-A series, and can expect better performance from the pre outs as long as they don't need to use balanced connections.

That may change now...

 

[Dj7675]

Every AVR I've ever owned -- two decades' worth -- had connectivity options that I never used. I've never used any of my AVRs solely as preamps or as power amps. I'm pretty sure most people buy full featured multichannel AVRs like this to use as the head unit of their (primarily HT) system. Others would tend to just buy separates.

(Using such DSP-packed devices as *amps* only - rather than as processors -- strikes me as particularly bizarre.)

Not really disputing your use at all. I have done both. My point is not what people tend to do, is if you provide an option, it should work for its intended use. In this case it doesn't and clips and shuts down and it shouldn't. I don't understand using it as "amps only". That would be strange. It really isn't uncomman at all to want to use seperate, better amps on your LCR and let the AVR handle the rest. As such it shouldn't shut down when getting to around 2V. I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't think it would take much efforft to provide an amp disconnect feature like Denon does.

 

[DamianW]

No one knows for sure but there is a good chance that the owner may be right even just by taking a guess, or he might actually know something that we don't...

??

 

[MerlinGS]

I don't understand using it as "amps only". That would be strange.

In the aught years, Panasonic had a digital receiver (SA-XR series I think) that had a bit of a following because of its internal digital architecture (if memory serves, the signal was not converted to analog before amplification). Some speaker manufacturers (e.g. Newform Research) even recommended using Behringer X-Overs (DCX2496?) and the analog input of the Panasonic to actively x-over their speakers and take advantage of the amps in the receiver (however, the conversion from digital to analog [DCX] to digital [I assume the SA-XR converted it to digital due to the amp's design] seems to defeat its presumed advantage). The aforementioned notwithstanding, it is unlikely Panasonic sold many of these receivers (percentage-wise) for the sole purpose of being used as amplifiers.

PS. I should also note I have read many people post that they use the amps in their old receivers to power SS, RS and Atmos speakers.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Amir, did you shut off what Gene at Audioholics refers to as "nanny" features before testing this unit; as an example ECO mode turned off, speaker impedance switch set to 8 ohms, etc?

 

[3dbinCanada]

Their integrated amps test so much better than the AVR's. I wonder if Yamaha just looks at multichannel receivers as throwaway items and builds accordingly.

I wouldnt say so. Up until 2020, they led the industry in terms of reliability with the least amount of problems and returns compared to other brands.

 

[EEE272]

Amir, did you shut off what Gene at Audioholics refers to as "nanny" features before testing this unit; as an example ECO mode turned off, speaker impedance switch set to 8 ohms, etc?

Eco was definitely off, otherwise you don't get such high output. 8 ohms the same, as he met the specs.

I would be more curious about ECO being on because it might reduce the power supply noise. It might also be nice to test the other DAC filters, just for fun.

In the end, I actually think their design might be quite good. The 120 Hz hum is not audible and the harmonic distortion seems better than for many other AVRs.