Yamaha RX-A3080 Review (AVR)

[Dj7675]

I am using multiple external amps with my 3080. The XLR feed signal to the LR channels of a Parasound Halo A31. A Buckeye amp powers Zone II for a pair of outdoor speakers. Internal amps power the Front and Rear height/Atmos speakers. Nothing has ever shut down, ever.

Thanks for posting your experience. I would think the issue would crop up most likely with the external amps on the LCR, depending on how loud you listen, speaker sensitivity, listening distance, etc... I can certainly see how it wouldn't be an issue for a very large percentage of owners for sure for those running with the internal amps of the unit.
Edit- I just re-read your post better and see you use an external amp for L/R. What is the gain on the Halo A31? Thanks again for posting

 

[EEE272]

My loudspeakers are very power hungry with low sensitivity (84db@1 Watt at 1m).
The Yamaha is supposed to shut down around 50-60 Watt when surround is run on all channels.
To make it simpler to calculate, assume 64 Watt still work, then we have 6x3dB =18dB headroom above 84 dB. That is 102dB. Even at 4m distance, you would have 97 dB per loudspeaker. Combining the contributing of all speakers is >103 dB without (!) considering the contribution of the sub. Then this level would have to be maintained for some time before there is a shutdown. I would say that this is in practice enough.

The discussion is a different one. Although it might not matter in practice, in theory, assuming the test is correct, it could have been built/designed better. I think it is fair if some people think this way. After all, many also choose electronics based on how they look from the outside - me certainly included.

In any case, personally, I am glad to see that there is no practical scenario in which I would be able to hear any degradation using this receiver.

 

[3dbinCanada]

Apparently Yamaha felt confident in its ability to refurbish the unit and re-release it into the wild. Shouldn't we perceive it as fully functional, or does Yamaha release faulty units to the public?

Was it refurbished by Yamaha? That information was missing.

 

[AdamG]

Was it refurbished by Yamaha? That information was missing.

It’s in the very first sentence of the review thread Post:
“This is a review and measurements of the Yamaha RX-A3080 Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly purchased by a member as a refurbished unit and sent to me.”

 

[3dbinCanada]

It’s in the very first sentence of the review thread Post:
“This is a review and measurements of the Yamaha RX-A3080 Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly purchased by a member as a refurbished unit and sent to me.”

So your assuming it was refurbished by Yamaha? I find that noise artifact at 120 Hz rather odd as that noise is at 2 twice the frequency of the line voltage. That's not a coincidence and it indicates a problem with the bridge rectifier. Have any other Yamaha models tested exhibited this behaviour?

 

[beagleman]

It’s in the very first sentence of the review thread Post:
“This is a review and measurements of the Yamaha RX-A3080 Audio/Video Receiver. It was kindly purchased by a member as a refurbished unit and sent to me.”

I think the confusion may stem from many such units being sold "Refurbished" on Ebay/Amazon/Best buy...etc

Often meaning quickly checked if all the stuff is in the box and it powers on.
But CAN also mean was extensively checked etc. (a rarity)

Or, somewhere inbetween. Usually the case. With components this complicated, it can take literally many hours to check all inputs, all output, all menu settings and screens, let alone audio performance or power issues.

On Ebay, often meaning the seller "refurbished" it, which is quite vague, and often means cleaned it up/or simply a term used to try to attract buyers in many cases.

 

[Rottmannash]

Perhaps the owner can end the speculation and simply tell us where he bought the unit and who refurbished it.

 

[3dbinCanada]

To Adam. I edited my post and removed the offending remarks. I'm embarrassed about what I wrote in that post and I'm sincerely sorry.

 

[JRiggs]

Thanks for posting your experience. I would think the issue would crop up most likely with the external amps on the LCR, depending on how loud you listen, speaker sensitivity, listening distance, etc... I can certainly see how it wouldn't be an issue for a very large percentage of owners for sure for those running with the internal amps of the unit.
Edit- I just re-read your post better and see you use an external amp for L/R. What is the gain on the Halo A31? Thanks again for posting

From the A31 manual, “The Gain control knobs should be left at the 12 o’clock Normal/THX setting for most applications. When a Gain control knob is set to Normal the gain for that channel is 29. This is the THX Ultra2 Reference Level where 1V input = 28.28V output. (28.28V driving an 8Ω speaker equals 100 watts.).” I have mine set at the normal/THX setting.

And yes, I am using the Parasound for L-C-R speakers (KEF R3 and R2c). The LR are fed signal from XLR outputs and the center is unbalanced RCA signal. The Buckeye amp is also fed unbalanced signals, and powers outdoor speakers. Internal amps are used for front and rear height speakers and a pair of surrounds.

 

[Dj7675]

From the A31 manual, “The Gain control knobs should be left at the 12 o’clock Normal/THX setting for most applications. When a Gain control knob is set to Normal the gain for that channel is 29. This is the THX Ultra2 Reference Level where 1V input = 28.28V output. (28.28V driving an 8Ω speaker equals 100 watts.).” I have mine set at the normal/THX setting.

And yes, I am using the Parasound for L-C-R speakers (KEF R3 and R2c). The LR are fed signal from XLR outputs and the center is unbalanced RCA signal. The Buckeye amp is also fed unbalanced signals, and powers outdoor speakers. Internal amps are used for front and rear height speakers and a pair of surrounds.

Sounds like a great match of gain with the receiver precuts. Thanks for posting.

 

[beagleman]

Sounds like a great match of gain with the receiver precuts. Thanks for posting.

Not to go too off topic, but years ago I owned a Yamaha C-85 Preamp.
I used a DBX BX2 as my Main amp.

I forget the exact specs of both units, but I had to run the Main amp through the "normal" inputs versus "Direct" ,which used the variable gain controls, and set them to approximately -12db, otherwise the volume range was fairly small and not the most usable thing, when full volume can be had at around 10 o'clock...Preamp volume setting.

 

[peng]

Great point, and I agree.
Being honest here, was going to just use internal amps and SEE if I could get protection to engage, but a good chance they would be as you say, more sensitive and merely result in VERY loud sound.

@amirm Do you recall the Volume control setting you used for testing, OR at what point it shut down?

Whether it would shut down in real use or not depends obviously on how much voltage your external power amp needs for your conditions of use.
The key information missing in the review/tests is, at what voltage from the balanced output it shut down on @amirm?

I hope Amir remembers that and give us an idea.

If Amir was trying to test it at 4 V (XLR) as he likely would have done then if he had dialed it down to 2 to 3 V and try again, then it would not likely have shutdown. He said the owner was mainly/only? interested in testing the internal amps so that may be the reason why he did not try harder to get the pre out measured.

The chance for protection mode being activated would increase if someone uses it with an external amp with lower than average gain such as the AHB2. For amps with a little higher gain, even the 26 dB Purifi amps, it would not likely be an issue unless unbalanced outputs are used. So I would say it is not a major concern, but an "owner beware" sort of thing. Obviously my comments here apply to the unit tested, or other samples too if the unit tested was not defective and the protection scheme was functioning as per design.

 

[peng]

From the A31 manual, “The Gain control knobs should be left at the 12 o’clock Normal/THX setting for most applications. When a Gain control knob is set to Normal the gain for that channel is 29. This is the THX Ultra2 Reference Level where 1V input = 28.28V output. (28.28V driving an 8Ω speaker equals 100 watts.).” I have mine set at the normal/THX setting.

And yes, I am using the Parasound for L-C-R speakers (KEF R3 and R2c). The LR are fed signal from XLR outputs and the center is unbalanced RCA signal. The Buckeye amp is also fed unbalanced signals, and powers outdoor speakers. Internal amps are used for front and rear height speakers and a pair of surrounds.

I have an Buckeye amp and a Parasound A21 (gain knob set to maximum per manual, that's THX, A31's different for some reason). If your Buckeye amp is the NC502MP then for best result in theory, you should use the NC502MP for LR and the A31 for the C and the surrounds. The reason is, all else being equal, you will get better gain matching that way because the A31's gain is 3 to 4 dB higher than the NC502MP. If the Buckeye amp you have is the lower output models then the following may or may not apply, depending on your actual power needs for each channel.

A31 gain: 29
NC502MP: 25 minimum., 25.5 typical, 26 maximum

So if you are using RCAs with the NC502 MP, the gain is the same, that is 25.5 dB typical but you are getting half the voltage from the 3080 and the chance of protection mode is greater. The 3080 pre out signal would reach its clipping point sooner. As it is now, you are giving the A31 the higher pre out voltage it doesn't need and may not be giving the NC502MP the voltage it needs under some conditions.

If can see the effects easily in the trim level setting if yo made the change and re-run YPAO or check it with a spl meter.

Whether the effects will be audible or not would depend on you listening habits and distances of each speaker to the mlp, but I would do it just to give the devices their best operating conditions and performance on paper. So it is just food for thought.., and I know it would sound weird because the A31 obviously costs a lot more than the Buckeye amp.

 

[JRiggs]

I have an Buckeye amp and a Parasound A21 (gain knob set to maximum per manual, that's THX, A31's different for some reason). If your Buckeye amp is the NC502MP then for best result in theory, you should use the NC502MP for LR and the A31 for the C and the surrounds. The reason is, all else being equal, you will get better gain matching that way because the A31's gain is 3 to 4 dB higher than the NC502MP. If the Buckeye amp you have is the lower output models then the following may or may not apply, depending on your actual power needs for each channel.

A31 gain: 29
NC502MP: 25 minimum., 25.5 typical, 26 maximum

So if you are using RCAs with the NC502 MP, the gain is the same, that is 25.5 dB typical but you are getting half the voltage from the 3080 and the chance of protection mode is greater. The 3080 pre out signal would reach its clipping point sooner. As it is now, you are giving the A31 the higher pre out voltage it doesn't need and may not be giving the NC502MP the voltage it needs under some conditions.

If can see the effects easily in the trim level setting if yo made the change and re-run YPAO or check it with a spl meter.

Whether the effects will be audible or not would depend on you listening habits and distances of each speaker to the mlp, but I would do it just to give the devices their best operating conditions and performance on paper. So it is just food for thought.., and I know it would sound weird because the A31 obviously costs a lot more than the Buckeye amp.

I have the lower powered Buckeye 2 channel amp and it is used to power a set of outdoor speakers. It is not used in the HT set up. The outdoor speakers are the JBL Control 30 which have a sensitivity of 93dB, 1 watt @ 1 meter.

I am using the internal amps of the 3080 for the surround and height speakers.

 

[beagleman]

Found this in the manual....

 

[peng]

View attachment 177992Found this in the manual....

The first part looks normal as they typically quote the number (V) for the internal amps to reach the specified rated output, but the "Maximum" of 2.0 V, while adequate, seems a little on the low side compared to others such as Denon/Marantz, Anthem's. Good thing they do have XLR for the FL/FR so there will have plenty of headroom if paired with amps that offer the same gain for both XLR and RCA inputs, but not the Marantz, Yamaha and many other amps that offer 6 dB lower gain for XLR inputs.

 

[Gary7]

I have an Buckeye amp and a Parasound A21 (gain knob set to maximum per manual, that's THX, A31's different for some reason). If your Buckeye amp is the NC502MP then for best result in theory, you should use the NC502MP for LR and the A31 for the C and the surrounds. The reason is, all else being equal, you will get better gain matching that way because the A31's gain is 3 to 4 dB higher than the NC502MP. If the Buckeye amp you have is the lower output models then the following may or may not apply, depending on your actual power needs for each channel.

A31 gain: 29
NC502MP: 25 minimum., 25.5 typical, 26 maximum

So if you are using RCAs with the NC502 MP, the gain is the same, that is 25.5 dB typical but you are getting half the voltage from the 3080 and the chance of protection mode is greater. The 3080 pre out signal would reach its clipping point sooner. As it is now, you are giving the A31 the higher pre out voltage it doesn't need and may not be giving the NC502MP the voltage it needs under some conditions.

If can see the effects easily in the trim level setting if yo made the change and re-run YPAO or check it with a spl meter.

Whether the effects will be audible or not would depend on you listening habits and distances of each speaker to the mlp, but I would do it just to give the devices their best operating conditions and performance on paper. So it is just food for thought.., and I know it would sound weird because the A31 obviously costs a lot more than the Buckeye amp.

Would something like the Art CLEANBox Pro (or another option) help out for using the NC502 MP on unbalanced channels (Center or Surround)? Or would it introduce too much noise to be considered? Again, in theory, but actual reported usage would be helpful.

 

[Ata]

I've seen many good reviews of the ONKYO TX-RZ50, where one reviwer even said that it is better than the DENON AVR-X3700H, but I would like to see the measurements before purchasing it, which unfortunately is also sold out everywhere...

I am in the same camp, waiting for measurements for one/any of the DIRAC enabled Pioneer/Onkyo/Integras. Well measuring AVR with DIRAC Live on all channels would be a good upgrade to my Denon X2500H. I thought someone said they are sending their unit to Amir, but I can't find that post anymore.

 

[3dbinCanada]

The first part looks normal as they typically quote the number (V) for the internal amps to reach the specified rated output, but the "Maximum" of 2.0 V, while adequate, seems a little on the low side compared to others such as Denon/Marantz, Anthem's. Good thing they do have XLR for the FL/FR so there will have plenty of headroom if paired with amps that offer the same gain for both XLR and RCA inputs, but not the Marantz, Yamaha and many other amps that offer 6 dB lower gain for XLR inputs.

I do not understand for the life of me why this industry cannot standardize on I/O gain structures. Its simply ridiculous and governments need to force standards into this big stinking pile of bovine excrements of an industry.

 

[peng]

I do not understand for the life of me why this industry cannot standardize on I/O gain structures. Its simply ridiculous and governments need to force standards into this big stinking pile of bovine excrements of an industry.

Agreed, a good first step is to at least come up with a standard to specify gain, and/or input sensitivity.
As it is now people get confused all the time by the so called input sensitivity specs.

For example, Parasound would say:
Input Sensitivity for 28.28 V Output into 8 Ω
Unbalanced: 1 V
Balanced: 1 V per leg

ATI would say:

Input Sensitivity for Full Rated FTC Output Power - 8Ω​

1.6 Volts

Both would seem technically correct, and it's fine for you and I but I think such specs would likely confuse a lot of people who just wants to know if their preamps (or AVRs/AVPs) can drive their target power amp to their rated output with adequate headroom by looking at the specs without having to do any calculations. I have seen at least one ASR post where the person questioned why Amir insists on testing preamps at 2 V when so many power amps like Parasound's only need 1 V. Clearly that person misunderstood Parasound's spec in that case. This is just one example, and that's without even mentioning the unbalanced vs balanced complication.

Okay just one more example for venting, we often get posts on why AVRs or AVPs that have RCAs only don't have enough voltage for external power amps because their pre out voltages are rated just 1 V (Yamaha) and 1.2 V (D+M, Onkyo etc.), and that's understandable if we look at the specs in the owner's manual right?