Yamaha cx-2 preamp has less noise than my 3 out board phono preamps?

[basko93]

Hello, so i have no issues with my Mani, Nad or musical fidelity v90-lps but noticed something. I have three turntables and change things up every once and awhile and decided to record one of my expensive tool albums to Dat tape, also my cassette player. Now say what you will, my Denon dat machine through my outboard is dac is like a carbon copy of my LP, no other format i have used compares, don't care for sending it to my computer. Anyway, without dropping the needle and hitting record pause, I hear white noise, if i bring it up to proper recording level it is bad. Never hear this just playing the records normally. Now if I go through my phono stage on my Yamaha cx-2 it is waaay quieter and it has higher gain! The Yamaha has always just sounded better to me, but I realize it does seem to be a perfect match for my Lomc Denons and even my Homc denon, the gain numbers seem to be perfect or closer than my out-board preamps. I have changed cables, mostly use Mogami stuff, the type most people recommend. My speakers are Crites modified Klipsch Chorus II and love them, i am aware that their sensitivity can amplify the issue but again my Yamaha is way quieter. The Yamaha is the only one to where i can get my recording levels to zero on either recorder. What am i missing here, i am ready to toss my out boards and look for something else. Issue is I like to run my three players and i do need to be able to match my cartridge's, wish my Yamaha had more phono inputs! Before i do anything, is this normal?

 

[GXAlan]

Yes, in part because that era was focused on high performance phone playback. If you look at the cartridge database thread, the Shure V15 Type V is still unmatched for linearity.

I have a Kenwood L-08c which also has a premium phono equalizer which beats just about anything out there.

All that said, I end up using the Luxman LXV-OT10 with its high distortion and upgraded op amps to control noise.

@restorer-john may be able to comment on this specific Yamaha model…

 

[basko93]

Yes, in part because that era was focused on high performance phone playback. If you look at the cartridge database thread, the Shure V15 Type V is still unmatched for linearity.

I have a Kenwood L-08c which also has a premium phono equalizer which beats just about anything out there.

All that said, I end up using the Luxman LXV-OT10 with its high distortion and upgraded op amps to control noise.

@restorer-john may be able to comment on this specific Yamaha model…

 

[basko93]

Ya, so far it appears so. Never noticed it till i decided to hit that record button.

 

[ryanmh1]

This is old, but maybe you'll see it. There's a possible explanation here. Yamaha knew how to build a really, really quite MC photo preamp, probably using parts other low volume manufacturers just couldn't get their hands on. For years their separates basically walked all over 95% of the market. Their preamps, amps, and tuners all had numbers (and would measure up to what was published) few could match then, and largely still don't now in the "high end", particularly the noise specifications of their MC preamps. I've had a few, including the CX-1 which slotted in above yours in the early 90s.

The Yamaha is specified as 84dB S/N IHF-A, with 500uV input. The Mani is apparently 87dB... at 2V output. What signal are they feeding it to pull off their S/N figure? According to the AP test report on their website, 2,250uV (or 2.25mV). I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that juicing the input signal to generate a magic 2V output isn't exactly benign... No LOMC cartridge puts out that sort of juice. I wouldn't be surprised if their 87dB drops like a rock once you play fair...

 

[MAB]

This is old, but maybe you'll see it. There's a possible explanation here. Yamaha knew how to build a really, really quite MC photo preamp, probably using parts other low volume manufacturers just couldn't get their hands on. For years their separates basically walked all over 95% of the market. Their preamps, amps, and tuners all had numbers (and would measure up to what was published) few could match then, and largely still don't now in the "high end", particularly the noise specifications of their MC preamps. I've had a few, including the CX-1 which slotted in above yours in the early 90s.

The Yamaha is specified as 84dB S/N IHF-A, with 500uV input. The Mani is apparently 87dB... at 2V output. What signal are they feeding it to pull off their S/N figure? According to the AP test report on their website, 2,250uV (or 2.25mV). I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that juicing the input signal to generate a magic 2V output isn't exactly benign... No LOMC cartridge puts out that sort of juice. I wouldn't be surprised if their 87dB drops like a rock once you play fair...

As you say, lots of attention to detail.
The two phono inputs on my late '70s Yamaha CA-2010 are as good as any phono preamp I have. Both inputs are quiet, one is flexible:

Even the lower models were great.

 

[basko93]

This is old, but maybe you'll see it. There's a possible explanation here. Yamaha knew how to build a really, really quite MC photo preamp, probably using parts other low volume manufacturers just couldn't get their hands on. For years their separates basically walked all over 95% of the market. Their preamps, amps, and tuners all had numbers (and would measure up to what was published) few could match then, and largely still don't now in the "high end", particularly the noise specifications of their MC preamps. I've had a few, including the CX-1 which slotted in above yours in the early 90s.

The Yamaha is specified as 84dB S/N IHF-A, with 500uV input. The Mani is apparently 87dB... at 2V output. What signal are they feeding it to pull off their S/N figure? According to the AP test report on their website, 2,250uV (or 2.25mV). I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that juicing the input signal to generate a magic 2V output isn't exactly benign... No LOMC cartridge puts out that sort of juice. I wouldn't be surprised if their 87dB drops like a rock once you play fair...ell

 

[basko93]

Yep, so far i am very impressed with the performance, the Yamaha matches my Denon cartridges perfectly. When i record from it my gain is perfect and noise floor is a lot better. I decided to use a Denon sut i purchased but never used, well its close. The Yamaha MC has more gain but the sut may have a bit more depth, its close. If i didn't have the sut, i would not bother getting one. I am impressed with the mc stage of the Yamaha. Recording to my Dat showed me the noise I did not realize was there.

 

[DVDdoug]

my Yamaha cx-2 it is waaay quieter and it has higher gain! The Yamaha has always just sounded better to me,

Gain amplifies noise so the Yamaha IS WAY better.

...Normally you should compare with signal levels matched so the noise you hear relates to the signal-to-noise ratio. But since you've got higher signal AND lower gain you know it's good.

don't care for sending it to my computer.

What happens when the DAT machine dies? Obviously, you can have multiple copies of computer files so it's much better for archiving. Also, you can leave headroom (so you are less-likely to get clipping) and amplify/normalize (losslessly) after recording. There is also software for cleaning-up clicks & pops, and you can EQ recordings that need it.

my Denon dat machine through my outboard is dac is like a carbon copy of my LP, no other format i have used compares,

Good! That should be the case with any digital format that's "CD quality" or better.

 

[basko93]

Gain amplifies noise so the Yamaha IS WAY better.

...Normally you should compare with signal levels matched so the noise you hear relates to the signal-to-noise ratio. But since you've got higher signal AND lower gain you know it's good.


What happens when the DAT machine dies? Obviously, you can have multiple copies of computer files so it's much better for archiving. Also, you can leave headroom (so you are less-likely to get clipping) and amplify/normalize (losslessly) after recording. There is also software for cleaning-up clicks & pops, and you can EQ recordings that need it.


Good! That should be the case with any digital format that's "CD quality" or better.

 

[basko93]

As far as the computer is concerned, i do have dsd files i play through a Nuc minicomputer to my dac. I have recorded to it from my turntable, analog to dsd, it's just a bit more hassle. I mostly play my Lp the way it was intended but for a few albums i record to my dat and out to my dac. My dat is just simple to use and as long as it continues to function i will get as much life out of it as i can. Lol

 

[Mazza]

Would love to get my hands on one of these....

Yamaha CX-2 Preamplifier Review price specs - Hi-Fi Classic

www.hifi-classic.net