Phono Preamp suggestion

[Fa11en.Universe]

Hey, folk
I'm looking to upgrade my phono stage with something newer and, I believe, BETTER.
Currently, I enjoy music with my:
TT - Techincs 1200GR - wired with Ortofon 6nx TSW-1010
Main cart - AT33PTG/ii
Phono stage - Pro-Ject TubeBox S2 with stock tubes
Amp - NAD 375Bee
Speakers - Canton Ergo RC-L

Everything is fine with the sound, but I want phono stage with more various functionals, like changing impedance from 0 to ...
Also, I'd like to have better SINAD and SNR.
Looking for your advice, thanks.

 

[somebodyelse]

MCs are pretty insensitive to load - see for example https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...n-low-output-mc-cartridges.58099/post-2125633
If you want lots of functionality look at the Waxwing, assuming it's available with reasonable delivery costs in your part of the world - it's a bit hit and miss with Amazon outside USA. The Classic Audio MC Pro is more conventional and measured well.

 

[mike70]

i have the same cartridge on a Technics MK7 ... i use it with a SUT (cinemag transformers) and then to a MM only preamp.
In my subjective impression, the cartridge works better in that way, MM / MC preamps usually have a compromised MC option

My opinion.

 

[Godataloss]

i have the same cartridge on a Technics MK7 ... i use it with a SUT (cinemag transformers) and then to a MM only preamp.
In my subjective impression, the cartridge works better in that way, MM / MC preamps usually have a compromised MC option

My opinion.

I've preferred to use my moving coils in that way to. Noise is almost always better as is the gain structure with my preamp.

 

[DVDdoug]

Tubes "can't help" (unless they have distortion and you like the distortion). Tubes don't necessarily have worse distortion than solid state but they aren't better either.

Everything is fine with the sound..
...Also, I'd like to have better SINAD and SNR.

That doesn't make sense. But if you are hearing preamp noise, of course a lower-noise preamp will help. There will ALWAYS be noise from the record which is almost always worse than preamp noise. (The Waxwing can apparently reduce the noise digitally.)

but I want phono stage with more various functionals, like changing impedance from 0 to ...

Unlike Moving magnet cartridges, moving coil cartridges aren't affected much by the load.

 

[pogo]

My 310MC is more sophisticated than the AT33PTG/ii and works very well with the WAXWING Phono DSP.

 

[spiral scratch]

I use SUT as well. I'm not sure I find it preferable to MC phono amp for sound, but there's nothing wrong with it. A couple of things with SUTs, they need to be matched to your cartridge's output and with the SUT you will be limited to using cartridges with similar output. Maybe not the flexibility you were after, but if you think you'll use the same cartridge for awhile might work for you.

I'm curious to know if there is any scientific basis for better performance of one over the other (MC phono vs SUT). My own basic research involved doing A/B comparing recordings of vinyl transfers didn't show any appreciable difference, but maybe that's a topic for another thread.

 

[mike70]

but maybe that's a topic for another thread.

Yes, I only will say something more.

Supposedly the passive voltage gain maded by the transformer have less noise / better SNR that serial opamps with 60 / 70 db gain.
Obviously, you need quality transformers, blah blah, but, subjectively it sounds more transparent to me.

In another aspect, I don't listen to noise on decent vinyl records. Maybe is the 86db sensitivity in my speakers ... but good shape and clean records sounds more like a CD than to a "noisy device". My experience.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Tubes "can't help" (unless they have distortion and you like the distortion). Tubes don't necessarily have worse distortion than solid state but they aren't better either.


That doesn't make sense. But if you are hearing preamp noise, of course a lower-noise preamp will help. There will ALWAYS be noise from the record which is almost always worse than preamp noise. (The Waxwing can apparently reduce the noise digitally.)


Unlike Moving magnet cartridges, moving coil cartridges aren't affected much by the load.

What you can get with a properly designed tube based phono preamp is significantly higher headroom. Being high voltage devices, you have lots of voltage swing available. Phono preamps with cathode follower output tubes only - just to be able to proclaim "there's a tube in this preamp" - are not what I mean by "properly designed".

 

[spiral scratch]

Supposedly the passive voltage gain maded by the transformer have less noise / SNR that serial opamps with 60 / 70 db gain.

Thanks for that. although it does sound like conjecture.

Obviously, you need quality transformers, blah blah, but, subjectively it sounds more transparent to me.

Not saying yours and others subjective opinions aren't a valid approach, as you and others have already posted in this thread the sonic benefits believed to be heard.

I was looking for something more evidence based.

 

[mike70]

Thanks for that. although it does sound like conjecture.

Not saying yours and others subjective opinions aren't a valid approach, as you and others have already posted in this thread the sonic benefits believed to be heard.

I was looking for something more evidence based.

Obviously, that's why I said is a subjective opinion ... not a law of the universe.
But, even you find some mc / mm preamp working "better" ... isn't also a truth in the opposite position, because preamps are designed / implemented different. Final result is in the implementation, not in the theoretical properties.

You can't confuse an experience result as a ubiquitous reality.

 

[Bob from Florida]

I use SUT as well. I'm not sure I find it preferable to MC phono amp for sound, but there's nothing wrong with it. A couple of things with SUTs, they need to be matched to your cartridge's output and with the SUT you will be limited to using cartridges with similar output. Maybe not the flexibility you were after, but if you think you'll use the same cartridge for awhile might work for you.

I'm curious to know if there is any scientific basis for better performance of one over the other (MC phono vs SUT). My own basic research involved doing A/B comparing recordings of vinyl transfers didn't show any appreciable difference, but maybe that's a topic for another thread.

Step up transformers can work quite well with MM tube or solid state phono preamps - as you noted if the MC cartridge-gain equation is satisfied. Tube based MM phono stages can benefit greatly from a step up transformer because of the low noise injected by the transformer. Not cost effective, but if you already have a good tube MM phono, you are already not being cost effective anyway - so, why not use one. Sound preference of a MC step up transformer is more likely the quality of the transformer - particularity the bass response. It gets expensive and I don't bother using them since I bought the Waxwing.

It does give you one more item on your rack to talk about when your audio friends come over.

 

[Blumlein 88]

This one is pretty good. A friend has it and uses it with an MC. $179

Review and Measurements of Emotiva XPS-1 Phono Amp

This is a review and measurements of the Emotiva XPS-1 Phono stage/pre-amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The XPS-1 costs US $199 from Emotiva or Amazon. The XPS-1 looks and feels fantastic despite its bargain price: It reminds me of a very high quality piece of instrumentation...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This one is also worth looking at. $299

Cambridge Audio Duo Phono Stage Review (Updated)

This is an updated review of the Cambridge Audio Duo phono preamplifier. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $349. The Duo has a solid build and is attractive to boot for its price. Back panel shows independent sets of inputs for moving magnet and coil cartridges: I like the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[spiral scratch]

Personally, if I was looking for a new phono amp I would be saving up for a Waxwing. It has loads of adjustability to match any cartridge with selectable RIAA. You can fine tune the output to give a ruler flat response. The only knock I've read aside from the AAA analogue purists is the low headroom which can be addressed by adjusting gain.

Have a look at the review thread. Plenty of good info and a good place to pose your questions.

 

[pogo]

The Waxwing has no low headroom. If anything, people have forgotten how to adjust/level recordings properly, just like in the past with Tapes, MiniDiscs, ...