Would someone care to interprate Amir's measurements/reviews here? Revel v Wharfedale.

[Yorkshire Mouth]

At 1,5m listening distance in a relatively small room I'd say directivity should still come into play, and this is where Revel seems to be better / more uniform. But Wharfedale is not bad either, so the resulting audible differences might not be very big. If you want to tweak tonality via EQ later, Revel should have a slight upper hand due to better directivity.

As stated before, the bass bump in the Revels shouldn't be a concern if you use room EQ (which is always recommended anyway). Otherwise tonality looks pretty good on both so I'm not surprised to read Amir's subjective evaluation is similarly positive.

Revel might also play louder, but you said that is not a concern.

There's also the looks; Revel has a more expensive looking cabinet and finish, but which design you prefer comes down to personal taste.

Last thing is the price - I also doubt Revel sounds twice as good as Wharfedale, so if none of the above considerations come into play in your case Wharfedale indeed seems like better value for money.

Smashing answer, thanks.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

What's the budget exactly?
You won't find Revels in UK under 750 pounds and foren unavailable offers don't really count in, future more you should avoid buying like that for a valid warranty.
Revels have cabinet refractions problem and Diamonds instead have a deep in cross region, neither can play loud without compression and woffer getting over exited. Ideal crossover point are about 120 Hz for Revels and 135 Hz for Wharfedale's (woffer only phase/impedance cross).
Well I am disappointed with Wharfedale UK prices. If you have money and space to put them I would go with Wharfedale Linton's of course if you have budget for them. They are 1100 pounds at Peter (and cuple other places) with stands. As stands are about 350 but you won't find speakers alone probably that makes price of speakers alone same as M16's and Linton's are way better and ideal crossover is at 80 Hz (so you can get things great even with one or more sub's in 2.1 setup). Tho those may pass even without sub's if any with solid output down to 40 Hz.
It doesn't matter if you listen to them on mid to close range and they are capable passing far field 4 m calibration point if you ever get a need for it. Of course they will do lower SPL very smooth and with very, very little THD. It's budget dependent but I am certain you could rearrange the budget a bit and spit a little more on speakers and less on amp and cetera.

Just to cut in on your first point, several places in the UK are selling the Revels at £500-£600, and have them in stock:

Revel Concerta2 M16 White (Pair) https://amzn.eu/d/e34aC0N

Revel M16 Speakers - Trade in Available - Supplied by Nintronics

Revel M16 | On Demonstration | Trade in Available | Interest Free Credit Available | Nationwide Installation Service Available | Authorised Revel Dealer + Stockist

nintronics.co.uk

Revel Concerta 2 M16 Bookshelf Speakers (Pair)-Gloss Black

The M16 is a true full range 2-way 6.5” bookshelf that features a small footprint and elegant design. It will deliver an impressive combination of wide frequency range, uncompressed dynamic range and low distortion across the entire audible spectrum. High frequency response is supported by 1...

nottinghamhifi.co.uk

The Linton? In a flash, mate!

But they’re probably just a sniff outside my absolute maximum budget, and have a low WAF, I’m afraid.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Yorkshire Mouth OK second one qualified as 600 pounds offer.
Then you should descent on Elac DBR62's if Linton's are too much. They are both more capable and have less problems than both Diamonds and M16's (very little refractions and much smaller deep then Diamonds). Less compression and higher SPL capable also. Ideal crossover point is still 120 Hz with DBR62's and you can not beat physics regarding that (woffer size).
Let's make this entirely clear if you can make it work ideally with 80 Hz crossover point (no port cuff just driver response) and keep it with one sub chenel needed you saved a lot by not using two sub chenels and 2x more sub's with it. This changes final calculation quit a bit.
Linton's + sub like SVS SB-1000 low level RCA I/O with high pass on output (2.1 setup) isn't the same price like smaller speakers + pair of sub's and multichannel DSP/interface/sound card for 2.2 setup.
Question remains what you have already from equipment you, would still like to use.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

@Yorkshire Mouth OK second one qualified as 600 pounds offer.
Then you should descent on Elac DBR62's if Linton's are too much. They are both more capable and have less problems than both Diamonds and M16's (very little refractions and much smaller deep then Diamonds). Less compression and higher SPL capable also. Ideal crossover point is still 120 Hz with DBR62's and you can not beat physics regarding that (woofer size).
Let's make this entirely clear if you can make it work ideally with 80 Hz crossover point (no port cuff just driver response) and keep it with one sub chanel needed you saved a lot by not using two sub chenels and 2x more sub's with it. This changes final calculation quit a bit.
Linton's + sub like SVS SB-1000 low level RCA I/O with high pass on output (2.1 setup) isn't the same price like smaller speakers + pair of sub's and multichannel DSP/interface/sound card for 2.2 setup.
Question remains what you have already from equipment you, would still like to use.

OOF! Not seen those Elacs before, that's opened up a can of worms.

By the way, BK XLS-200 DF sub already in my possession.

Muchos thanks.

 

[tw 2022]

Just to cut in on your first point, several places in the UK are selling the Revels at £500-£600, and have them in stock:

Revel Concerta2 M16 White (Pair) https://amzn.eu/d/e34aC0N

Revel M16 Speakers - Trade in Available - Supplied by Nintronics

Revel M16 | On Demonstration | Trade in Available | Interest Free Credit Available | Nationwide Installation Service Available | Authorised Revel Dealer + Stockist

nintronics.co.uk

Revel Concerta 2 M16 Bookshelf Speakers (Pair)-Gloss Black

The M16 is a true full range 2-way 6.5” bookshelf that features a small footprint and elegant design. It will deliver an impressive combination of wide frequency range, uncompressed dynamic range and low distortion across the entire audible spectrum. High frequency response is supported by 1...

nottinghamhifi.co.uk

The Linton? In a flash, mate!

But they’re probably just a sniff outside my absolute maximum budget, and have a low WAF, I’m afraid.

the lintons would be good , but they are *big* .. i'm thinking too big for anything "desk top-ish"....

 

[tw 2022]

Not seen those Elacs before, that's opened up a can of worms.

from all accounts : they are good...

 

[dominikz]

Personally, I think any out of those three (Revel M16, Wharfedale 12.1 or Elac DBR62) should work quite well in the low-SPL context you're describing, so I'd probably make the choice based on non-audio criteria in this case (i.e. availability, price and looks )

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

A bit of background, and I'll try to post a pic later.

The room is 3m wide x 5m long. There's a TV in a corner at one end of the room. The desk (where I'll be working) will be in the centre of the 3m wall at the other end.

There's a large sofa around 3m (maybe a tad more) down from the TV end, so 2m from the desk wall (listening/speaker end).

The desk will be around 1m wide, with the speakers on stands either side of that. The subwoofer may be under the desk, more likely just to the right of the right speaker (or left of the left).

Effectively, these will be used a little like monitors. When listening to the speakers, the chair I sit at at the desk working (or listening on headphones) will be simply pushed back until it hits the sofa - this distance is planned to form an equilateral triangle with the speakers. If it's 2m from wall to sofa, I have to factor in the depth of the speakers and a little distance from the speakers to the wall, so 1.5m-ish.

Hope that helps. Not sure if there's anything in there which makes any difference.

Just one more thing - I'm 58, the bins are 14 & 16, so I have maybe 5 years with this set up in this room, then I should imagine we'll be moved and I'll be in a smaller office. Almost certainly no bigger, and there are no rooms in my current house which are bigger, either.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Personally, I think any out of those three (Revel M16, Wharfedale 12.1 or Elac DBR62) should work quite well in the low-SPL context you're describing, so I'd probably make the choice based on non-audio criteria in this case (i.e. availability, price and looks )

That's a lot of my thinking, too. Because of domestic considerations, these won't be run at ear-bleeding levels, the room isn't huge, and I'm sat quite close.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Amir:

“The M16 has a boosted upper bass and this was quite audible, creating a warmer, albeit slightly muddy sound without correction for my room mode which it activates. The M16 retails for double the price but you can get it for less discounted. Still, I didn't feel that it provided much of any advantage over Wharfedale 12.1 in this quick comparison.”

I don’t think that fits, or implies, or even leaves the remotest possibility of the Revels being ‘twice as good’, or even close.

Can eq. Leaving out superb midrange.

 

[Robbo99999]

Revel Concerta2 M16 White (Pair) https://amzn.eu/d/cDuCUk2

Excellent, all the prices I saw were £1000 a pair, but yes that is indeed £549 for a pair that you've found there!

As people have been saying the Elac DBR 62 is really good and that's £499 for a pair on Amazon, but only 2 left in stock, so might disappear:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Debut-Reference-Bookshelf-Speakers-Walnut/dp/B081K9NSB3/ref=asc_df_B081K9NSB3/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=463101828684&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16799917380798999797&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-872407643705&mcid=15dfd108ace638b5a1611292b7bad89c&th=1

I think you should go for the Revel M16 then or the Elac DBR 62, if you're keeping it for a long time I wouldn't compromise by going with the Wharfedale. So looking at the spins for the M16 & DBR 62:

I think the M16 looks like a smoother frequency response if you're gonna be doing an Anechoic EQ on them using Amir's measurements here, and especially in the mids the M16 looks smoother which is a benefit even at stock, but I'm thinking the DBR62 might have better tonality right out of the box when used at stock and has a slightly higher preference rating (5.7 vs the 5.5 of the Revel M16). When I looked at the distortion graphs for both yesterday they seemed similar, and directivity of both is good. For me I think the Revel M16 edges out the DBR62 from the measurements, that's my view. I'd go the M16 unless someone shows some reasons why the DBR62 is better.

 

[dominikz]

I'd just note that the ASR spin for M16 was one of the early ones that had drooping high frequency response and seemingly some HF comb filtering - possibly due to use of the microphone cage.
Vendor and various 3rd party measurements (including mine) show a rising response >15kHz:

The difference is not critical, but it may impact how one calculates filters for anechoic response correction.
I'd personally love to see M16 remeasured on NFS at some point!

 

[thewas]

Also the DI and early reflections (which are similar to the PIR) curves show that the Revel is clearly the superior design compared to the Elac, for me the choice would be crystal clear, on the other hand they are also different price classes.

 

[Robbo99999]

Also the DI and early reflections (which are similar to the PIR) curves show that the Revel is clearly the superior design compared to the Elac, for me the choice would be crystal clear, on the other hand they are also different price classes.

(Although only £50 difference for the couple we found in the UK) £499 vs 549 (DBR62 vs M16) (both for a pair).

 

[thewas]

(Although only £50 difference for the couple we found in the UK) £499 vs 549 (DBR62 vs M16) (both for a pair).

Lucky you, wish Revels could be bought so cheaply here, it would make my choice/recommendation at this price range very simple.

 

[Robbo99999]

Lucky you, wish Revels could be bought so cheaply here, it would make my choice/recommendation at this price range very simple.

Ha, you reckon he should buy those Revel's before they all go & the deal is no longer there! I think he should.

 

[thewas]

Ha, you reckon he should buy those Revel's before they all go & the deal is no longer there! I think he should.

If there wouldn't be customs tax from UK I would even buy them from him if he wouldn't like them.

 

[terryforsythe]

Okay, I'm looking at two reviews, and trying to see if I should get one or the other I'll post links below. After that I'll let you know my thinking, but you might want to write your comments in the reply box before reading that bit, so as not to colour your judgement.

Yorkshire Mouth, above is from your original post starting this thread. Below is from your response to my reply to that post.

Secondly, usage would be pretty much nearfield, which largely negates any advantage the Revels have if it comes down to the effects of in room reflectivity. I’ve noted this 2 or 3 times now, and no one appears to be disagreeing on that point, or pointing out any other advantages the Revels have. But I’m more than happy to hear such points.

I find this response a little strange, even nonsensical, given your statement in the first post starting the thread "[a]fter that I'll let you know my thinking, but you might want to write your comments in the reply box before reading that bit, so as not to colour your judgement".

(Before responding, please go back and read your entire first post).

I did as you suggested.

Moreover, your original post did not mention "usage would be pretty much nearfield". So, following your suggestion to comment before reading your thinking, how would I have known nearfield was in your thinking at the time I commented? If I had read the entire thread before posting my comments, my judgement may have been coloured and I would have found your thinking. That would have been contrary to your original suggestion, though.

Lastly, I find your comment "I’m not having a go at anyone else with any of these points" to be rather distasteful, especially for "having a go" at me because I followed your suggestion while trying to provide perspective that you requested.

 

[Robbo99999]

Simpler to just keep it on the speakers: buy the Revels!

 

[theyellowspecial]

Had the DBRs, kept the M16s, never heard the Dales.