Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[mwmkravchenko]

The problem, of course, is that open TLs don't work in small cabinets. The smallest box I've seen it not be an abject outright fail in is the somewhat larger PMC 6, and it still has a big interference dip around 300hz.

In Speaker Builder Magazine in the early 80's there was a gentleman named John Cockroft. He did quite a few experiment sin making short T-lines. The shorter he made them, the higher the stuffing density. As with all things audio. What you gain with one hand you loose with the other. Efficiency drops. Personally a maximally damped sealed enclosure is the cleanest sound. A proper front loaded horn is the best of both with dynamics, again, with the volume penalty. DC to light in a thimble always tend to be a problem.

Mark

 

[Dennis Murphy]

The question is, how do your market your products without sending them to subjective reviews? And if you don't have reviews in magazines, you could also potentially be locked out from hifi shows. There are ties here.

Well, it certainly isn't easy. Advertising dollars are needed to get on the review roster for most of the larger magazines. For us, Audioholics proved the exception, for which I am eternally grateful. Some of the smaller mags will review a non-advertising ID product if there's sufficient interest to boost their exposure. Still, it isn't an absolute necessity to get mainstream reviews. Ascend seems to be doing quite well just on reputation.

 

[Penelinfi]

I have a TL speaker with a 3.5" woofer. Haven't measured it, though it sounds reasonable. Was designed with help of knowledgeable people 10+ years ago. If the TL didn't end up doing much, at least the cabinet is well braced !

 

[Bjorn]

Well, it certainly isn't easy. Advertising dollars are needed to get on the review roster for most of the larger magazines. For us, Audioholics proved the exception, for which I am eternally grateful. Some of the smaller mags will review a non-advertising ID product if there's sufficient interest to boost their exposure. Still, it isn't an absolute necessity to get mainstream reviews. Ascend seems to be doing quite well just on reputation.

Audioholics isn't an exception I'm afraid. They might have been in the past though. Was shocked by their reply when we asked them to review a Vera Audio amplifier.

 

[mwmkravchenko]

Audioholics isn't an exception I'm afraid. They might have been in the past though. Was shocked by their reply when we asked them to review a Vera Audio amplifier.

Seen first hand back in 2014 what Audioholics asks. I'm guessing it hasn't changed for the better.

Mark

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Seen first hand back in 2014 what Audioholics asks. I'm guessing it hasn't changed for the better.

Mark

Please elaborate.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Audioholics isn't an exception I'm afraid. They might have been in the past though. Was shocked by their reply when we asked them to review a Vera Audio amplifier.

I chose my words carefully. Audioholics was an exception for us. I can't vouch for their general policy.

 

[mwmkravchenko]

Please elaborate.

This was in 2014. I hope it has gotten better. Expensive $5K. A review comes with the expenditure. And then little else versus the promises made. Every rag and or semi-popular website is a business. The people that read those bits of advertising and information and choose to be influenced by it should know that there are vested interests in keeping the latest and greatest coming. Be that true that the latest is the greatest or not. I stopped reading reviews in the 80's. Having talked with reviewers when I was running shows and learned firsthand of their dearth of technical knowledge I still do not read reviews. But now I have good reasons as to why I don't read them!

The few places that measure well I can list on less than one hand. Soundstage does real measurements in an appropriate environment. No affiliation whatsoever.

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - SoundStage! Home

www.soundstagenetwork.com

Mark

 

[Purité Audio]

I took the Kiis, Dutch&Dutch 8Cs and some Manger loudspeakers ( which didn’t fare too well) to Phil Ward who reviews and measures for SoundonSound magazine he is a really nice guy , and absolutely honest and there was never any question of payment of any kind.
My experience with mainstream magazines has been atrocious, including theft of a tonearm, a dac slipping from highly rated in its first review to being bottom of the pile in the next simply because I didn’t take advertising.
I have nothing but utter contempt for them.
Keith

 

[sigbergaudio]

I took the Kiis, Dutch&Dutch 8Cs and some Manger loudspeakers ( which didn’t fare too well) to Phil Ward who reviews and measures for SoundonSound magazine he is a really nice guy , and absolutely honest and there was never any question of payment of any kind.
My experience with mainstream magazines has been atrocious, including theft of a tonearm, a dac slipping from highly rated in its first review to being bottom of the pile in the next simply because I didn’t take advertising.
I have nothing but utter contempt for them.
Keith

At the same time many are now mainly internet based and thus free, so advertising is their main and for some only source of income.

 

[fpitas]

At the same time many are now mainly internet based and thus free, so advertising is their main and for some only source of income.

And it's illegal to lie on the internet.

/

 

[Purité Audio]

At the same time many are now mainly internet based and thus free, so advertising is their main and for some only source of income.

T these were both mainstream paper magazines, really mainstream one still actually survives.
They know full well that as a small guy they can say and do whatever they like , shameful.
Keith

 

[Bjorn]

Advertising is one thing but when it requires a commercial package of something like $5000 before you review the product, it's not a fair game. Obviously it will only lead to reviews of certain brands, besides not giving a neutral review. It's not really a review anymore.

 

[Purité Audio]

Is that the figure Audioholics wanted to charge you for the amp review?
The whole system is rotten to the core, the current YT ‘influencers’ appear to have picked up the mantle dropped by the paper magazines.
I really do believe though that first rate product does succeed and thrive despite the ‘payola’.
Keith

 

[fpitas]

The whole system is rotten to the core, the current YT ‘influencers’ appear to have picked up the mantle dropped by the paper magazines.

If anything, they take it to a whole new level of corruption. And their fans love them for it.

 

[Bjorn]

Is that the figure Audioholics wanted to charge you for the amp review?
The whole system is rotten to the core, the current YT ‘influencers’ appear to have picked up the mantle dropped by the paper magazines.
I really do believe though that first rate product does succeed and thrive despite the ‘payola’.
Keith

No. With Audioholics it was a montly payment and an annual commitment. The total of a year would have been considerably higher. I was told what success it had brought to the Norwegian brand Arendal Sound.

A German magazine charged something in the area of 5000-5500 Euro for adds and in order to test our amplifier.

 

[ernestcarl]

No. With Audioholics it was a montly payment and an annual commitment. The total of a year would have been considerably higher. I was told what success it had brought to the Norwegian brand Arendal Sound.

A German magazine charged something in the area of 5000-5500 Euro for adds and in order to test our amplifier.

No idea it cost that much.

I remembered being curious how much it cost to have one’s product advertisement included in the recent Loudspeaker Design Cookbook. I wonder if there’s an “annual” renewal or additional fees for when there’s any large scale re-prints of the book with their ads still on it. Hmmmn…

 

[sigbergaudio]

Advertising cost is something many probably don't think about at all when they consider if a product is cheap or expensive, while in practice for many products advertising can be one of the largest cost factors.

I'm sure you can find products where the entity earning the most on sales is Facebook or Google (due to their advertising income on said product).

 

[Bjorn]

Let me just add here that Audioholics may review products without payment for what I know as well. But I was told they would prioritize their partners as review demand was high at that time.

Advertising one page, half a page or less area for only month in magazine is much less, though I still find it very expensive. This combined with the cost of demoing at most hifi shows is probably the main cause of the high price of so many products today. Especially renting a decent size room at the Munich show is super high.

 

[Rick Sykora]

I chose my words carefully. Audioholics was an exception for us. I can't vouch for their general policy.

You are way too modest. You have major established industry credibility. Audioholics likely waived their typical compensation based on how much traffic your product would draw. With all due respect to Bjorn’s work, they did not regard him and his amp with comparable value in these days where brand reputation often outranks most other positive qualities.

P.S.

No shame in brand equity but as heard here, not everyone may be treated equally and good to know how others are being treated too.