Matt, i see it the other way....
I think it's pretty ludicrous that design has "anything to do with the sound".
The SOUND is what a blind man would hear...imho...
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Worst measuring loudspeaker?
- Thread starter Purité Audio
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I think it's pretty ludicrous that design has "anything to do with the sound".
The SOUND is what a blind man would hear...imho...
MAB
Major Contributor
It's one of my all time favorite movies, I am strongly biased.Sure, they do. No reason to believe that any special effects were needed.
MattHooper
Master Contributor
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I guess it just comes down to what one means by "having anything to do with the sound."
I infer that what you, and Keith, mean is that the RESULT of the design choices have "nothing to do with sounding good" where you have a specific version of "good" in mind that these don't meet.
But I think that's a bit of a muddy way to talk about "not having anything to do with the sound."
I personally think it's clearer to recognize goals in the design. The design choices certainly were (in all likelihood) "quite a lot about the sound" in terms of the designer at least BELIEVED many of the choices were being made in regard to sound quality, and in fact may have actually MET his goal in terms of the sound character he was looking to achieve.
I think speaking in terms of the choices "having nothing to do with the sound" ignores or muddies this distinction.
I think it makes more sense to say of such a design that some ASR members would see this as a poor design in terms of certain sound quality goals, and from that perspective highly overpriced relative to "better sounding" alternatives.
mwmkravchenko
Active Member
I hope you are joking. What I have found with many people is that they have become accustomed to sound that has very little resemblance to reality. Shimmering highs is a perfect example. This is most often high frequency distortion in a tweeter.
The same can be said of many a horn system. A properly designed one can reproduce sound in a most realistic way. The trouble is you do not see or hear them very often.
Mark
As long as people can't do at least a proper AB test, it seems many can be convinced that almost anything can sound good. It's still suprising to me to hear setups that were terrible in some many areas get great feedback from a certain group.
An example. Before I measured these speakers, I was told by the owner who deep they extended in the bass. Because that's what he had read about the design, which was supposively transmission line. When I listened I experienced the very opposite and something that measurements taken afterwards confirmed.
Right and left speaker with 1/6 Oct. smoothing in the listening position.
It wasn't a room cancellation FIY. Didn't extend any lower in near field or anywhere in the room.
Near field measurement of one of the speakers:
The price of the speakers are shockingly high.
An example. Before I measured these speakers, I was told by the owner who deep they extended in the bass. Because that's what he had read about the design, which was supposively transmission line. When I listened I experienced the very opposite and something that measurements taken afterwards confirmed.
Right and left speaker with 1/6 Oct. smoothing in the listening position.
It wasn't a room cancellation FIY. Didn't extend any lower in near field or anywhere in the room.
Near field measurement of one of the speakers:
The price of the speakers are shockingly high.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #707
I am not keen on analogies but this seems appropriate,
Keith
Keith
By "design choices", I was thinking more about looks and aesthetics.
Not about acoustic design choices like SPL and dynamics capability, low-end frequency extension, and radiation pattern ...all in what size/type room.
If you meant the latter set of design choices, then surely yes...100% contributions to the sound....
If you meant the former..then I'm back to it's time to put on a blindfold
That would be disappointing (if i measured my speakers and got that result, etc). For some I guess 50 Hz is bass.
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I think 50 Hz would be a pretty attractive alternative to the latest transmission line speaker from PMC--the Prodigy.
Anything from PMC is not cheap. Surely they could afford a testing microphone. The old stoner of a founder should really hire better people. Or at least some educated ones. Holy F*ck. All PMCs I have seen measurements for have that chasm between 125 and 175 hz.I think 50 Hz would be a pretty attractive alternative to the latest transmission line speaker from PMC--the Prodigy.
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Normally I would say that's just floor bounce cancellation from a stand-mounted speaker. But scanning through other stand mount measurements from HiFi News, I'm not always seeing it--e.g. the Martin Logan B10. So maybe it really is the result of poor TL tuning. It would be very helpful if we could find some documentation on how their measurements are conducted.
It's a problem with many PMC speakers.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/pmc_gb1/
https://www.stereophile.com/content/pmc-db1iii-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/pmc-fact8-signature-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/pmc_gb1/
https://www.stereophile.com/content/pmc-db1iii-loudspeaker-measurements
https://www.stereophile.com/content/pmc-fact8-signature-loudspeaker-measurements
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Thanks. It ain't floor bounce cancellation.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #716
That top end is a real firestarter. The whole review is well worth reading for entertainment, there is a comment about the top end that I won't spoil by quoting.
PMC prodigy1 Loudspeaker
It wouldn't be a PMC loudspeaker without transmission line bass loading, and the diminutive prodigy1 is no exception One of my secret loves has long been transmission line speakers. I miss IMF (named after the designer, Irving M. Fried), the doyen of the genre, although the technology has been...
www.hifinews.com
PS Dennis posted about this above.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #718
Yes I read that it brought a smile, just terrible speakers , what are they thinking?
Keith
Keith
I'm surprised they measure that bad - on a quick demo I thought they were quite impressive for a small speaker - especially given they are PMC as I've never been keen on any of their previous domestic speakers.
DSJR
Major Contributor
I'm stunned frankly, that a speaker range such as this suffers no deep bass extension yet the TL cancellation between 100 and 200Hz is still there. Ancestors IMF's larger models had prodigious bass extension and output but the 150Hz or so issues were disguised somewhat by pulling the mid and high frequencies down somewhat to match it, leaving the 20 - 100Hz region up in level. The later RSPM IV, in addition to having switchable lf filters, damped the bass extension more and this minimised the 150Hz-ish dip somewhat. PMC don't seem to care about this TL characteristic and leave it blatantly there. The rise and rise at hf is again deliberate and maybe to attract B&W customers? There's usually a deep 'scoop' in the lower kHz region as well. For such an exalted company, I don't know what the heck is going on with them, although in a large room I liked the powerful energetic Fact Fenestrias which did entertain and involve, despite any response anomalies.. Even these seem to roll off below 80Hz - surely not right?
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