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Worst measuring loudspeaker?

MattHooper

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It’s the whole ethos of them, absolutely nothing to do with sound everything about selling to those with money and no taste.
Keith

You don't seem to understand how other audiophiles (and speaker designers) actually think....

It's pretty ludicrous to assume the design has "nothing to do with the sound." Most audiophile speakers come from boutique companies, often started and run by someone passionate enough about sound and audio to start the business. And by nature the design usually reflects the designers own tastes and goals, what he/she wants to achieve.

While there are certainly some exceptions along the road, and perhaps once you get to larger companies, the most parsimonious and reasonable default is that the speakers designed by this company reflect what THEY THINK to be decisions important in realizing the sonics they are trying to achieve. So it has very much to "do with the sound"...even if you personally don't like the sound.

And as to taste...your subjective preference is noted.
 

gnarly

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You don't seem to understand how other audiophiles (and speaker designers) actually think....

It's pretty ludicrous to assume the design has "nothing to do with the sound." Most audiophile speakers come from boutique companies, often started and run by someone passionate enough about sound and audio to start the business. And by nature the design usually reflects the designers own tastes and goals, what he/she wants to achieve.

While there are certainly some exceptions along the road, and perhaps once you get to larger companies, the most parsimonious and reasonable default is that the speakers designed by this company reflect what THEY THINK to be decisions important in realizing the sonics they are trying to achieve. So it has very much to "do with the sound"...even if you personally don't like the sound.

And as to taste...your subjective preference is noted.
Matt, i see it the other way....
I think it's pretty ludicrous that design has "anything to do with the sound".
The SOUND is what a blind man would hear...imho...
 

Kal Rubinson

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The horns in the movie allow a brain in a vat named Irvin to communicate to humans on a submarine. They seem to do a good job, and are beautiful.
Sure, they do. No reason to believe that any special effects were needed. :facepalm:
 

MattHooper

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Matt, i see it the other way....
I think it's pretty ludicrous that design has "anything to do with the sound".
The SOUND is what a blind man would hear...imho...

I guess it just comes down to what one means by "having anything to do with the sound."

I infer that what you, and Keith, mean is that the RESULT of the design choices have "nothing to do with sounding good" where you have a specific version of "good" in mind that these don't meet.

But I think that's a bit of a muddy way to talk about "not having anything to do with the sound."

I personally think it's clearer to recognize goals in the design. The design choices certainly were (in all likelihood) "quite a lot about the sound" in terms of the designer at least BELIEVED many of the choices were being made in regard to sound quality, and in fact may have actually MET his goal in terms of the sound character he was looking to achieve.

I think speaking in terms of the choices "having nothing to do with the sound" ignores or muddies this distinction.

I think it makes more sense to say of such a design that some ASR members would see this as a poor design in terms of certain sound quality goals, and from that perspective highly overpriced relative to "better sounding" alternatives.
 

mwmkravchenko

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But but those ‘Pinocchio’ ( and the Vitavox cab below) horns are considered by the cognoscenti to be amongst the finest loudspeakers available at any price.
Keith
I hope you are joking. What I have found with many people is that they have become accustomed to sound that has very little resemblance to reality. Shimmering highs is a perfect example. This is most often high frequency distortion in a tweeter.

The same can be said of many a horn system. A properly designed one can reproduce sound in a most realistic way. The trouble is you do not see or hear them very often.

Mark
 

Bjorn

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As long as people can't do at least a proper AB test, it seems many can be convinced that almost anything can sound good. It's still suprising to me to hear setups that were terrible in some many areas get great feedback from a certain group.

An example. Before I measured these speakers, I was told by the owner who deep they extended in the bass. Because that's what he had read about the design, which was supposively transmission line. When I listened I experienced the very opposite and something that measurements taken afterwards confirmed.
Right and left speaker with 1/6 Oct. smoothing in the listening position.

Høyre frekvensrespons med 1 til 6 glatting.jpgVenstre frekvensrespons med 1 til 6 glatting.jpg

It wasn't a room cancellation FIY. Didn't extend any lower in near field or anywhere in the room.

Near field measurement of one of the speakers:
Nærfelt av venstre høyttaler med 1 til 6 glatting.jpg


The price of the speakers are shockingly high.
 
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Purité Audio

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I am not keen on analogies but this seems appropriate,
IMG_3348.jpeg


Keith
 

gnarly

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I guess it just comes down to what one means by "having anything to do with the sound."

I infer that what you, and Keith, mean is that the RESULT of the design choices have "nothing to do with sounding good" where you have a specific version of "good" in mind that these don't meet.
By "design choices", I was thinking more about looks and aesthetics.
Not about acoustic design choices like SPL and dynamics capability, low-end frequency extension, and radiation pattern ...all in what size/type room.

If you meant the latter set of design choices, then surely yes...100% contributions to the sound....

If you meant the former..then I'm back to it's time to put on a blindfold :D
 

Axo1989

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As long as people can't do at least a proper AB test, it seems many can be convinced that almost anything can sound good. It's still suprising to me to hear setups that were terrible in some many areas get great feedback from a certain group.

An example. Before I measured these speakers, I was told by the owner who deep they extended in the bass. Because that's what he had read about the design, which was supposively transmission line. When I listened I experienced the very opposite and something that measurements taken afterwards confirmed.
Right and left speaker with 1/6 Oct. smoothing in the listening position.

View attachment 332985View attachment 332986

It wasn't a room cancellation FIY. Didn't extend any lower in near field or anywhere in the room.

Near field measurement of one of the speakers:
View attachment 332987

The price of the speakers are shockingly high.

That would be disappointing (if i measured my speakers and got that result, etc). For some I guess 50 Hz is bass.
 

Short38

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It appears that the bass section has a built in commode. Nicely finished lid. Awkward seating position.
 

Gringoaudio1

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I think 50 Hz would be a pretty attractive alternative to the latest transmission line speaker from PMC--the Prodigy.
1223pmc.l1.jpg
Anything from PMC is not cheap. Surely they could afford a testing microphone. The old stoner of a founder should really hire better people. Or at least some educated ones. Holy F*ck. All PMCs I have seen measurements for have that chasm between 125 and 175 hz.
 

Dennis Murphy

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Anything from PMC is not cheap. Surely they could afford a testing microphone. The old stoner of a founder should really hire better people. Or at least some educated ones. Holy F*ck. All PMCs I have seen measurements for have that chasm between 125 and 175 hz.
Normally I would say that's just floor bounce cancellation from a stand-mounted speaker. But scanning through other stand mount measurements from HiFi News, I'm not always seeing it--e.g. the Martin Logan B10. So maybe it really is the result of poor TL tuning. It would be very helpful if we could find some documentation on how their measurements are conducted.

 
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Purité Audio

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Stereophile have just published the Podgy -d on line, PMC just when you think you have seen everything.


Keith
 

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Soniclife

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Stereophile have just published the Podgy -d on line, PMC just when you think you have seen everything.


Keith
That top end is a real firestarter. The whole review is well worth reading for entertainment, there is a comment about the top end that I won't spoil by quoting.

PS Dennis posted about this above.
 
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Purité Audio

Purité Audio

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Yes I read that it brought a smile, just terrible speakers , what are they thinking?
Keith
 

Mart68

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I'm surprised they measure that bad - on a quick demo I thought they were quite impressive for a small speaker - especially given they are PMC as I've never been keen on any of their previous domestic speakers.
 
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