Working from the speakers backwards

[-Matt-]

I wish people would stop repeating this meaningless statement- it sends the wrong message to people.

You want to make a statement like that, clarify EXACTLY what you mean by properly designed. I mean specifics- all of them. It'll be a long list.

Since you clearly know all maner of amplifiers inside out, I'd love to hear your list of key factors or specifications that differentiate an excellent amp from an average one.

 

[Jaxjax]

I'm looking to put together the best sounding 2.1 system I can for my living room, with a maximum budget of 10K.
The room is quite large, with vaulted ceilings, and I'll be listening from approximately 10' away. I'll primarily be using a streaming source such as Tidal.

I've been reading through the forum, and it looks like the best speaker in my budget is the Revel F208, conveniently on sale at the moment for $3850 a pair. Unfortunately, no retailer offers these in my area to listen to - I've enjoyed the KEF R11 and Paradigm Founder F100 in person, but I'm inclined to trust the data and go with the Revels after reading the forum. I already own a Klipsch 12" sub I intend to use, and I'd love to be able to build this into a linked multi-room system with basic speakers in a couple of other rooms, 2 of which already have Yamaha RXV-4A receivers. In the past I've had success with the Yamaha musiccast system so I was thinking of using a Yamaha WXC-50 as the streamer, but I'm open to alternative ways to link up rooms if a better system exists.

My major questions are:
What amp would you recommend to drive these speakers? I see the Benchmark AHB2 has some of the best measurements, but I worry power output would be insufficient.
Would the WXC-50 significantly impair my system, and if so, is there another streamer I should look at that offers some way to link multiple rooms? Would bypassing the yamaha DAC and running in a miniDSP Flex significantly improve my outcome?

Thank you all for your input; its been eye opening reading the massive trove of knowledge contained within this forum.

Just go active with that 10k.
Dynaudio Core 59 @ 6500-7500 & money left over for whatever
or... KH 420 at 10k
Then EQ to taste
Done
The Revel F208 /AHB2 is awesome but I would definitely go active with that money.

 

[restorer-john]

Since you clearly know all maner of amplifiers inside out, I'd love to hear your list of key factors or specifications that differentiate an excellent amp from an average one.

It's a subject for a dedicated thread sometime soon.

 

[Tahoe]

Just go active with that 10k.
Dynaudio Core 59 @ 6500-7500 & money left over for whatever
or... KH 420 at 10k
Then EQ to taste
Done
The Revel F208 /AHB2 is awesome but I would definitely go active with that money.

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

 

[ryanosaur]

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

It is a growing and worthy trend.
In the end, it also is a personal-value decision for whomever considers it. There is nothing wrong with it, and in many ways can be superior to a traditional passive option.

 

[Chrispy]

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

If I didn't have an existing amp setup I'd consider actives, but that's not my situation....but if I were in yours I'd certainly consider active speakers. YMMV.

 

[Mnyb]

I would argue to NOT buy Speakers that you may know ahead of time need to be EQ'd to sound accurate or neutral, or to fix a faulty design issue. (I'm notorious for disliking Klipsch and B&W for many of their issues in FR... There are a lot of high quality Speakers at all price points that perform better!) Definitely plan on adding at least 1 Good-Quality Sub, especially if you ever listen to anything like Pipe Organ or Electronic music.

I also highly recommend looking at Hypex or Purifi for Amplification, depending on where you are, there are dealers in the US and EU that can deliver good product at a reasonable price.

I would consider speakers that functions good with EQ your going to use it if you have it.
B&W and some Klipsch are not those also speakers that don’t take well to EQ due to thier weird directivity issues on top of the fr issues ? So you really can’t EQ them with particulars good results.

Some people seems to eq even the best of speakers in very good rooms ?
I think listening distance and room acoustics play a role here , even a good neutral speaker may be to bright or to dull for your taste in your circumstances.

Maybe you can’t confidently buy sight unseen based on info here at ASR ?

But I would say it can be a good filter to get a list of products to consider.

For speakers I would remove those with weird fr issues like you say and those without any consideration for directivity/ dispersion control from my list . Keep those who adhere to current science on the list.

These f208 revels would be on my list to .

I wonder if a whole system approach is the way forward your speakers are not some magical box that even can sound just rigth for you, but they merely projecting a soundfield in your room and it have to be dealt with by your room eq system like Dirac . But the better speakers comes closer to work rigth out of the box for most people in most rooms that’s they Beaty of it , but for perfection you probably need to consider eq subwoofers etc .

Amplifier ? Can it drive the chosen speakers and the given room to desired levels ? I also think “good” amps sounds very similar but the assumed pre condition is that they are comfortable driving the speakers and not clipping or have other issues with the load , that’s more important than some list of specs , ie does it even work properly for the given task ?

 

[NiagaraPete]

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

I first went Aktiv = Active 20+ years ago with Linn. Their stuff was okay and coloured but add the aktiv models and amps and holly crap the hole world changed. A pair of Ninka’s with 3 amps was mind blowing. For about 8k you had a power house.

Today that Linn stuff is crap. A $200 DAC and and pair of Genelec’s or Neumann’s cooks the shit out of it.

Go one step farther like the KH420, D&D 8c, Genelec 8361’s, and a few others and wow.

My opinion ends here,
Cheers

 

[Peluvius]

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

Do you really want to go down that rabbit hole...? The Revels you have your eye on are a very nice speaker....

 

[Tahoe]

Do you really want to go down that rabbit hole...? The Revels you have your eye on are a very nice speaker....

I'm learning now these rabbit holes can be quite deep

Truth is, I don't have a golden ear. All I want is warm, rich sound.... But with no way to audition gear, finding the right answer looks like the challenge!

 

[Holmz]

Curious as to why there are so many voices for active speakers in this thread.
What about my particular set up implies active is the way to go?

Well because you are asking about speakers and amps, and mentioned rabbit holes, and not being golden eared.
And streaming and digital inputs… etc.

So it sounds like you do not currently have a system.

Going to some thing like the Genelec 8361 is $10k with almost nothing left to do for cables and integration.
It is about the easiest and best system for 10k, and you are much more likely to have a really good system.

Cobbling together a system from parts will not likely be better, and likely to be complicated, and likely have a lot of money loss if you do not like them.

I have a pair of mono blocks as well as a stereo amp for sale, and if someone fronted up wanting to buy the amp(s) or amps and speakers, I would let them, go and run something like the Genelec 8361, and simplify things quite a bit.
(Or D&D, Kef, Bucharts, etc.)

 

[Chrispy]

I'm learning now these rabbit holes can be quite deep

Truth is, I don't have a golden ear. All I want is warm, rich sound.... But with no way to audition gear, finding the right answer looks like the challenge!

Golden ears aren't necessary Curious, what speakers/gear have you used up til now? I haven't been able to "hear" stuff in advance for quite a while, and have relied on good measurements and user reports and haven't sent anything back yet. I'd get rid of the Klipsch sub while you're at it, tho. You said rabbit hole, so....

 

[NiagaraPete]

I'm learning now these rabbit holes can be quite deep

Truth is, I don't have a golden ear. All I want is warm, rich sound.... But with no way to audition gear, finding the right answer looks like the challenge!

You have a great budget with some awesome options. It’ll be fun to hear what you decide.

 

[Beershaun]

Since you are starting from scratch with a solid budget and a big room. I'd suggest auditioning the KEF LS60 wireless, the Kii3. Then add the Revel's you suggested with a minidsp and Purifi based amp like Buckeye or other with Dirac room correction. Then when you find your favorites think about adding a subwoofer or 2 in order to get the full range response you want. I can't recommend enough that a modern hifi system is actually 2.1 or 2.2.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I would normally say listen to speakers. Most speakers I've spent any real money on were after I heard some and wanted them. OTOH, my last purchase was a pair of F208's without hearing them first. I've been very happy with them. For the room size you have subs might be needed or desirable. Just how large is your room?

Actives are a good way to go, but maybe not for large speakers. Theoretically, they make better use of power, and would have power amps sized to make maximum use of drivers. In practice many of them seem to skimp too close to the edge on power in my opinion. I'd rather have a bit more amp than I need than not quite enough.

If you are going to buy sight unheard, I'd say F208s are one of your safer choices.

Plenty of good power amps are available that will suit. The next hardest part is probably a streamer you like.

 

[levimax]

Consider Genelecs and other active options. My advice.

+ 1 If I was starting fresh I would only consider active speakers. Read the tests here ... active speakers only have advantages and their performance speaks for its self. I would look at Neuman KH 310 or similar with subs.

 

[Peluvius]

I'm learning now these rabbit holes can be quite deep

Truth is, I don't have a golden ear. All I want is warm, rich sound.... But with no way to audition gear, finding the right answer looks like the challenge!

You don't need golden ears to appreciate excellent sound. I would consider a pair of 8351s and two subs as a potential setup and something to integrate them and give you some room correction like a MiniDSP flex/Dirac setup. If you have no way to audition gear you need to go for safe options that are very widely agreed to be excellent. The F208's fall into that category however I would go for the Genelec's myself. Bit more $$....

 

[Holmz]

You don't need golden ears to appreciate excellent sound. I would consider a pair of 8351s and two subs as a potential setup and something to integrate them and give you some room correction like a MiniDSP flex/Dirac setup. If you have no way to audition gear you need to go for safe options that are very widely agreed to be excellent. The F208's fall into that category however I would go for the Genelec's myself. Bit more $$....

@Peluvius
The Gennies already have the DSP built in… to an extent.

 

[polmuaddib]

Truth is, I don't have a golden ear.

Golden ears is a myth and usually self proclaimed.
Trained ears is real, but having those means hearing more distortion and being sensitive to imperfections, so you might not want those.
Just have clean, working ears. More then enough.

 

[Chrispy]

Might take a look at forum member Sigberg's offerings for active speakers/subs https://www.sigbergaudio.no/collections/alle-sigberg-audio-produkter