Changes to reviews to improve credibility of this site to people who trust their ears over instrumentation measurements

[chelgrian]

Does seem to be a bit of a drive by post though. OP has not engaged with the thread he started in any way. Despite the invitation on page 1 from @RickS to do so in a constructive manner.

One thing such people seem to miss is that ASR is entirely onside with controlled blind ABX listening tests, they are just extremely difficult to reliably perform.

You also have to be upfront with what those tests tell you which is firstly if the test panel can reliably tell the difference between two sources and secondly if that particular panel prefers one over the other. These two points are very different.

 

[xray]

The use of the terms "improve credibility" and "desperately need" tells me the post was not made of good faith and intended to incite. Typical drive by trolling.

 

[wwenze]

What do you think of this post of yours in DIYAUDIO.com?

View attachment 444739

Very "constructive," huh?

I am going to caution you to not keep your current tone. It is tiring to see someone want to fight and complain in every thread and incessantly so. If we are not your cup of tea, just go where someone welcomes this kind of attitude.

Pretty ironic, because I stopped visiting diyaudio for at least 5 years now after their SNR got worse

Guess one man's signal is another man's noise

 

[JSmith]

ASR as a rather toxic environment...

From my perspective, there are many other forums that are many many times more toxic than ASR could ever be. I don't think we shut down genuine discussion here, but just won't put up with the BS that exists elsewhere... something many members come here to avoid or take a break from.

The OP certainly had a hint of disingenuousness from the start, but we do need to take the post on face value to start with as well to see how the conversation progresses (which was done). I guess for me it's probably because I've been on online forums since they existed, even further back to IRC and BBS' (in fact I used to run my own BBS which was quite popular back in the day)... so I guess one develops a sense of when posters are genuine or not. I appreciate that is something not everyone has experience in.


JSmith

 

[Audionaut]

ASR, as we all know, is not the place for such things ie politics…unless you say something vapid about Trump or merely support whatever it is MSNBC or CNN is spewing.

Regardless of the forum, you will always find people who write that politics should not be tolerated in the forum - and make political statements themselves.
Annoying

 

[Mr Swing King]

Annoying

Agreed.
I want you all to abide by these rules that I am not going to abide by myself.
I am then going to feed you only one side of the story - coincidentally the very same that the mainstream media is feeding you with.
Science only matters when it comes to gear.

 

[Audionaut]

Troll OP or not, the way this thread has unfolded really paints ASR as a rather toxic environment...

I don't think it's toxic, Brad, it actually went better than expected, especially considering the small number of moderators.
What do you expect when you question the foundations of the forum?

Of course, you can go to a recognized Michelin-starred restaurant and explain your view of cooking as it should actually be done properly to the chefs there, but that probably won't meet with a positive response from the guests and chefs there.

 

[Audionaut]

I want you all to abide by these rules that I am not going to abide by myself.
I am then going to feed you only one side of the story - coincidentally the very same that the mainstream media is feeding you with.

I have a sinking feeling that you are addressing things that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

 

[Azrael]

they are a half century (51 years) old design, from an era where vinyl (no deep, accurate low distortion bass) was the only serious playback medium.

Revox A77, introduced in 1967:

 

[Purité Audio]

I see a thread about economics… ASR ( and the other measurement based sites) are thoroughly changing the hi-fi industry for the good.
Keith

 

[Audionaut]

Revox A77, introduced in 1967:

Yes, high quality, but you could only buy a very limited number of pre-recorded tapes.
Almost everything was on vinyl and later also on the very limited quality compact cassette

 

[Azrael]

Yes, high quality, but you could only buy a very limited number of pre-recorded tapes.

Yes, that was the disadvantage, especially as such a recorded tape have been considerably more expensive than a vinyl LP. However, such tapes tended not to have the weaknesses of vinyl that were mentioned, that's all I was getting at.

 

[RickS]

Has been stated previously but think it is worthwhile to repeat, a forum is supposed to be an open discussion platform. Even after I had been a member for some time, it was not until another member emphasized this that I started to appreciate what that meant. How an open forum can be reasonably implemented is a definite challenge. I have supported Amir as he has generally supported ASR as a more open discussion platform. I have been on some comparable audio forums but have not experienced an owner as engaged as Amir. No, ASR is not perfect, it is just better than most (in my experience).

This openness has been the guiding principle for moderation here and even with some struggles, has mostly prevailed. This thread is an example of this principle in operation. For the most part, the discussions here have been constructive, and I think this is a credit to Amir, moderators (past and present) and the membership. Thank you all!

The spirit of open discussion is why I thought this thread should continue despite a notably challenging opening. Whether the OP replies or not, there is value to be had from the dialog (both positive and negative). Please help keep it constructive.

 

[antcollinet]

I don't think it's toxic, Brad, it actually went better than expected, especially considering the small number of moderators.
What do you expect when you question the foundations of the forum?

Of course, you can go to a recognized Michelin-starred restaurant and explain your view of cooking as it should actually be done properly to the chefs there, but that probably won't meet with a positive response from the guests and chefs there.

Exactly. Telling someone they are wrong is neither hostility nor toxicity.

 

[antcollinet]

so where else do you suppose we address this issue?

You don't.

Simple.

 

[Deleted member 77012]

a forum is supposed to be an open discussion platform

Can’t agree more.

But how open is a discussion platform if its boss is leading a closed monologue?

 

[antcollinet]

Can’t agree more.

But how open is a discussion platform if its boss is leading a closed monologue?

How about staying on topic for the thread.

 

[Salt]

Can’t agree more.

But how open is a discussion platform if its boss is leading a closed monologue?

A mono-logue is a mono-, not dia-logue.
Add your technical knowledge so all can profit from that and leave the f**** p**** aside, as it does nothing in the run of the world in this forum (though in the 'wealth' and 'humour' section may be some exceptions).
Simply accepting this helps to keep this unique institution running (had to accept this for myself, too, but now go for it).

 

[amirm]

But how open is a discussion platform if its boss is leading a closed monologue?

The previous moderation team thought you all couldn't be trusted to have a peaceful conversation on this topic leading me to create that personal blog. I actually think we could have an open dialog but don't have the moderation bandwidth in case I am wrong.

 

[Oddball]

Larger discussion about who does what is beyond this thread that is ill positioned from the start. If there is more beef behind it than a OP should start a new thread.

It is clear to all "adult" members that measurements are the key to choosing the right equipment. Speakers, that take most of the credit for the great or terrible performance (assuming the path to them is transparent enough) are the bottleneck, but then "by ear" evaluation is just as useless as no evaluation at all. I like blue cars, but someone likes them black - no point in discussing that?