WiiM Mini Streamer

[Smitty2k1]

I use a Pi with PiCorePlayer/Squeezelite for my whole home audio system but am considering a WIIm Mini with a DAC for headphones/desktop setup.

 

[MCH]

For me, the big differentiator between the wiim and the pi is DSP capability. To the point that they could even become complementary instead of alternatives.
Otherwise, this could become a pi-streamer killer for many people.

 

[telemike]

I've already retired my pi/volumio for the WIIM to use my Amazon music account. Only way on Pi was airplay

 

[MaxBuck]

I don't use music streaming services much and currently not even subscribed to any- so I'm assuming none of them support dlna/upnp natively at all?

Streaming services are irrelevant to these protocols. They're hardware-specific, independent of media source.

 

[telemike]

WiiM supports DLNA digital media server. Please go to WiiM Home App, select Browse tab > My Music > Wait a few seconds then "Home Music Share" pops up that points to your DLNA media server.

 

[MaxBuck]

There are also utilities to rip tracks from these other services, which I don't think exists at all for Apple Music (and even if it did, annoying to transcode ALAC to FLAC for my own personal use).

When you talk about "utilities to rip tracks," are you talking about stealing music? So far as I know, all the major streaming services allow purchase of either albums or individual tracks, so I'm not sure what you're getting at. I hope you're not planning to intentionally steal from the artists whose music you enjoy.

 

[somebodyelse]

Airplay2 needs special hardware.

For certain values of 'needs' perhaps - it may be the only way Apple will license it, which matters if you're a manufacturer. Meanwhile the open source reverse engineered implementations are picking up more of the features:
https://github.com/topics/airplay2

 

[soapsuds]

I've been using the WiiM Mini for several weeks as an inexpensive way of bringing an old analogue stereo system into my array of AirPlay destinations. I find it works very well indeed. Support from the manufacturer on some queries regarding AirPlay stream resolution was great too.

 

[drmevo]

Support from the manufacturer on some queries regarding AirPlay stream resolution was great too.

Do you mind sharing what they said, if it might be relevant to others?

 

[Music1969]

For certain values of 'needs' perhaps - it may be the only way Apple will license it, which matters if you're a manufacturer. Meanwhile the open source reverse engineered implementations are picking up more of the features:
https://github.com/topics/airplay2

Noted but WiiM mini is targeted at people that want the real deal Airplay2, straight out of the box

Open source solutions will always be around but not mass market unfortunately. At least the trend by big players has been going the other way.

 

[telemike]

From WiiM support:

Thanks very much for your feedback.

Now we don't support gapless when casting from Amazon app. we will update it and will announce when it's available.

Thanks,
Ning

 

[soapsuds]

Do you mind sharing what they said, if it might be relevant to others?

I was puzzled by the fact that my DAC always showed it was receiving 48 kHz PCM no matter what lossless resolution the Apple Music app said it was playing over AirPlay. I was told that AirPlay streaming always sends 16-bit/48 kHz no matter what the original source resolution is, so that’s what the WiiM Mini puts out on its optical port.

There was a slight discrepancy in our conversation that I never followed up on. In one of the earlier responses to my enquiry, I was told that ‘the AirPlay 2 protocol supports up to 24-bit/48 kHz’. Maybe the 16-bit in subsequent follow up was a typo or it’s just what Apple devices currently send despite the protocol spec.

I didn’t bottom out that detail for several reasons. Firstly, it’s a fact that AirPlay 2 isn’t bit perfect, so I must live with it. Secondly, I don’t think my ears or stereo would let me tell the difference between 24 and 16 bits in this transcoded scenario anyway. Finally, I mainly use AirPlay for multi-room audio, so as long as the sound quality is good and playback is synchronised, that’s probably all that matters.

Whilst there is something technically dissatisfying about the discrepancy between what resolution the Apple Music app says it is playing and what I see on the DAC display, I don’t think it matters in practice for me.

 

[flz]

Firstly, it’s a fact that AirPlay 2 isn’t bit perfect, so I must live with it.

There's been a long back & forth about this subject. See post #126 & 133 of this thread (and there are other posts). According to this source, Apple Music over Airplay 2 is bit perfect if you play from MacOS (NOT iOS).

 

[soapsuds]

There's been a long back & forth about this subject. See post #126 & 133 of this thread (and there are other posts). According to this source, Apple Music over Airplay 2 is bit perfect if you play from MacOS (NOT iOS).

So what?

I didn't make the statement in the context of any previous posts on the subject or debate within them, just as one of the reasons I didn't pursue clarity on bit depth with WiiM support in response to @drmevo's request.

I wasn't talking specifically about 44.1 kHz stream resolution in particular either. Nor did I mention any given operating system with manual settings that might make it work at that particular resolution.

I happen to use AirPlay with macOS, iOS and tvOS. They all transcode my current favourite 24-bit/96 kHz album to 48 kHz despite the Apple Music app showing it is playing Hi-Res Lossless at 24/96, that's rather the point. So, for me AirPlay isn't bit-perfect, and as I wrote, I don't really care for my particular use case.

 

[flz]

So what?

I didn't make the statement in the context of any previous posts on the subject or debate within them, just as one of the reasons I didn't pursue clarity on bit depth with WiiM support in response to @drmevo's request.

I wasn't talking specifically about 44.1 kHz stream resolution in particular either. Nor did I mention any given operating system with manual settings that might make it work at that particular resolution.

I happen to use AirPlay with macOS, iOS and tvOS. They all transcode my current favourite 24-bit/96 kHz album to 48 kHz despite the Apple Music app showing it is playing Hi-Res Lossless at 24/96, that's rather the point. So, for me AirPlay isn't bit-perfect, and as I wrote, I don't really care for my particular use case.

ok, it doesn't matter (at least not for you). heard loud & clear.

 

[drmevo]

I was puzzled by the fact that my DAC always showed it was receiving 48 kHz PCM no matter what lossless resolution the Apple Music app said it was playing over AirPlay. I was told that AirPlay streaming always sends 16-bit/48 kHz no matter what the original source resolution is, so that’s what the WiiM Mini puts out on its optical port.

There was a slight discrepancy in our conversation that I never followed up on. In one of the earlier responses to my enquiry, I was told that ‘the AirPlay 2 protocol supports up to 24-bit/48 kHz’. Maybe the 16-bit in subsequent follow up was a typo or it’s just what Apple devices currently send despite the protocol spec.

I didn’t bottom out that detail for several reasons. Firstly, it’s a fact that AirPlay 2 isn’t bit perfect, so I must live with it. Secondly, I don’t think my ears or stereo would let me tell the difference between 24 and 16 bits in this transcoded scenario anyway. Finally, I mainly use AirPlay for multi-room audio, so as long as the sound quality is good and playback is synchronised, that’s probably all that matters.

Whilst there is something technically dissatisfying about the discrepancy between what resolution the Apple Music app says it is playing and what I see on the DAC display, I don’t think it matters in practice for me.

Thanks! That's about what I expected they might have said and echoes what I have read elsewhere on AirPlay2. It's not their implementation of it, just the way AirPlay 2 works, as I understand it. Like you, I would ideally like a bit-perfect output (streaming from my iPhone) but at the end of the day I really doubt I would be able to discern a difference.

 

[soapsuds]

Thanks! That's about what I expected they might have said and echoes what I have read elsewhere on AirPlay2. It's not their implementation of it, just the way AirPlay 2 works, as I understand it. Like you, I would ideally like a bit-perfect output (streaming from my iPhone) but at the end of the day I really doubt I would be able to discern a difference.

I suspect you might already know this, but you can get bit-perfect streams out of your iPhone with a Lightning to USB cable into a DAC if you want. This works flawlessly in my experience, but it is not as convenient as the wireless AirPlay approach of course. This research seems to show that the vast majority can't tell the difference between 16-bit/44.1 kHz (CD spec) and higher resolutions anyway. No doubt this subject has been hotly debated elsewhere on this forum, and this post is not intended to provoke it further.

 

[telemike]

The big question is the Airplay2 stream 256K AAC or lossless ALAC from iPhone/iPad to WIIM

It's ALAC if i use my old Airport Express with Airplay 1 firmware

 

[mediocrebutarrogant]

No, thats not correct.
AirPlay 1 and 2 are both lossless 44,1 kHz 16 bit.
In the first few months on Apple Music lossless , in the realease summer 2021, there where some music that behaved like 256 AAC when AirPlay was used. Audiophile style wrote about this. Thats NOT the case now. Further, the volume control in digital form is really good in airplay making it much better than all lossy bluetooth protocols.

’’The protocol supports metadata packets that determine the final output volume on the receiving end. This makes it possible to always send audio data unprocessed at its original full volume, preventing sound quality deterioration due to reduction in bit depth and thus sound quality which would otherwise occur if changes in volume were made to the source stream before transmitting.”

AirPlay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit : TIDAL connect and Apple lossless/high resolution sound exactly the same if you have good gear - some variation can sometimes be found that depends entirely on different masterings.

Define good gear? I got tidal over usb and apple lossless over cck adapter bitperfect to topping e50->l30->sundara tidal like espreso and apple like nescafe'

 

[mediocrebutarrogant]

without gapless DSOTM is unbearable, the gear is pointless