Why does my Yamaha setup sound better than the Luxman 595?

[dman777]

I have the Luxman 595 class A amp. I also have the Yamaha r-n2000a used as a preamp to the Yamaha AS-3200. Ether system will use the same Sonus Faber Lumina II speakers. These speakers could be considered on the bright side.

I don't know why, but the Yamaha setup (preamp and amp) sounds a bit better to me. It is more open sounding and the sound stage sounds better. The Luxman has the vocals and instruments more forward than the Yamaha, which I like alot. The luxman also will have some instruments stand out more since they are more forward, which is good. But the Luxman sounds more flat and closed when compared to my Yamaha setup (preamp and amp). Why is this?

 

[GXAlan]

Do you have YPAO or Loudness enabled on the Yamaha? I recall that being one reason you liked it more than the AS3200.

The Luxman is for that very specific description that you had. It’s only 30 watts so you may be hitting the limits of the amp. Try subtly turning up the treble and bass on the Luxman to see if that helps.

I think you have gotten your answer though. The R-N2000A is *right* to your ears and has slayed two giants. You will run in circles trying to find good-at-everything and if the R-N2000A is great, you’re done. Spend your money upgrading speakers.

You have the money to get these fine amplifiers and to really answer why, I would strongly consider sending your Luxman, or AS-3200 to @amirm or @thin bLue. Maybe there’s something in the measurements that will answer your questions. At face value, all three amps are really good and you wouldn’t expect there to be a big difference in sound.

Better yet, consider buying a E1DA Cosmos ADC and some non inductive resistors and we will be able to help you learn to measure your three amps and answer this question more definitively!

 

[restorer-john]

You have the money to get these fine amplifiers and to really answer why, I would strongly consider sending your Luxman, or AS-3200 to @amirm or @thin bLue. Maybe there’s something in the measurements that will answer your questions. At face value, all three amps are really good and you wouldn’t expect there to be a big difference in sound.

Better yet, consider buying a E1DA Cosmos ADC and some non inductive resistors and we will be able to help you learn to measure your three amps and answer this question more definitively!

Seriously, nobody in their right mind is going to ship either the Lux or and Yamaha AS-3200 to Amir for no good reason are they? Everything to lose (damage/loss/expense etc) and nothing to gain as ASR's amplifier tests are half-assed at best, let's face it.

And, as for the Cosmos A/D plus a crash course in testing, nobody who actually cares about musical reproduction is going to entertain that fringe activity either are they? Let's be real here. The way an amplifier interacts with a loudspeaker cannot be equated with an interface with a relatively flat impedance and complete lack of reactivity. Strap on a proper loudspeaker, with a decent reactive response and see what happens.

 

[dman777]

No, I am not using YPAO on Yamaha r-n2000a. I am using the loudness about 30 percent.

The luxman is not having any issues powering the speakers.... I have the volume about 30% up and it is plenty loud...in fact, any louder and it would be to loud for me. To compare, the Yamaha r-n2000a used as a preamp to the AS-32000, would be about 65% to be just as loud.

Also, to avoid confusion... it's only when the Yamaha r-n2000a paired (used as a preamp) with the AS-32000 that it sounds better to me than the single Luxman. If it was just the Luxman vs Yamaha AS-3200 (without the r-n2000a preamp)... I would say the Luxman sounds better.

 

[GXAlan]

Seriously, nobody in their right mind is going to ship either the Lux or and Yamaha AS-3200 to Amir for no good reason are they? Everything to lose (damage/loss/expense etc) and nothing to gain as ASR's amplifier tests are half-assed at best, let's face it.

And, as for the Cosmos A/D plus a crash course in testing, nobody who actually cares about musical reproduction is going to entertain that fringe activity either are they? Let's be real here. The way an amplifier interacts with a loudspeaker cannot be equated with an interface with a relatively flat impedance and complete lack of reactivity. Strap on a proper loudspeaker, with a decent reactive response and see what happens.

I agree mostly. No one “in their right mind” is going to ship the stuff, but how many people do you know going out and buying both an A-S3200 and Luxman 595A when they have and like a R-N2000A WITH THE LOUDNESS enabled?

Getting the OP to realize that the loudness is what he likes is a victory to the OP, and if he has the money to buy all three amps, maybe he has some crypto money he is sitting on and can eat the cost of shipping and risk of loss….

+1000 on testing in reactive loads, as many of my newer tests have shown. Baby steps…

 

[dman777]

I forgot to mention, the luxman does have a loudness and I am using it. However, it is not adjustable compared to the Yamaha r-n2000a.

The reason why I am exploring outside of the Yamaha setup is because the vocals are a bit recessed on the r-n2000a, and why it's not bad, I prefer vocals forward.

 

[restorer-john]

I forgot to mention, the luxman does have a loudness and I am using it. However, it is not adjustable compared to the Yamaha r-n2000a.

The reason why I am exploring outside of the Yamaha setup is because the vocals are a bit recessed on the r-n2000a, and why it's not bad, I prefer vocals forward.

I would consider EQ or at the least, tone controls. Either will save you a whole ton of money. And it's easy to revert back.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Seriously, nobody in their right mind is going to ship either the Lux or and Yamaha AS-3200 to Amir for no good reason are they? Everything to lose (damage/loss/expense etc) and nothing to gain as ASR's amplifier tests are half-assed at best, let's face it.

And, as for the Cosmos A/D plus a crash course in testing, nobody who actually cares about musical reproduction is going to entertain that fringe activity either are they? Let's be real here. The way an amplifier interacts with a loudspeaker cannot be equated with an interface with a relatively flat impedance and complete lack of reactivity. Strap on a proper loudspeaker, with a decent reactive response and see what happens.

HA! -I like the wording of that. Even though I've been banned for less.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I forgot to mention, the luxman does have a loudness and I am using it. However, it is not adjustable compared to the Yamaha r-n2000a.

The reason why I am exploring outside of the Yamaha setup is because the vocals are a bit recessed on the r-n2000a, and why it's not bad, I prefer vocals forward.

Yamaha has a great loudness function. I bet that is what you prefer and the answer to your question. Try to look in the manual for the R-N2000A. I bet they provide you with frequency response curves and a nice explanation of the loudness function. -They usually do.

 

[Short38]

Wow. Many more possibilities here! Three amps each with pre out and main in. So three pre amps and 6 channels of amplification available for experimentation. Try this set of experiments : 1. Lux pre 1. A. Tone controls enabled and 1.B. Tone controls bypassed. Lux pre feeds the amplification section of the AS 3200 with each condition above. Repeat with the RN 2000A amplification section. Then use one channel of the AS and one channel of the RN assuming equal sensitivity of the amps. Reverse the channels. Next use the pre of the AS 3200 and the amp sectio of the Lux and NR. Repeat until all combinations of Pre out and Amp in are exhausted. You are certain to find some combination that will manage the forward voice/sound stage trade off. Check interconnects for signs of wear.

 

[Willied]

Since the function of the Yamaha loudness control is to attenuate the midrange, one would expect a wider and deeper soundstage. Reducing the loudness or engaging Pure Direct should bring the midrange forward and flatten the stage.

By the way, I contacted Yamaha tech support and they did say that Pure Direct sets all analog inputs to true analog. Otherwise, all inputs are digitized. I have noticed that moving the tone controls from center causes a momentary dropout. I would not be surprised if the signals are analog until the tone controls are engaged even with Pure Direct off and that both bass and treble are handled via DSP.

So many unknowns with Yamaha’s lack of real documentation. The recent firmware update is a mystery. I remember when I bought my Apt Holman preamp. The owners manual was like a telephone book. It told you everything. You would think that, considering the cost of the 2000a and the availability the internet affords, that we could know all there us to know about this unit.

 

[jooc]

ASR's amplifier tests are half-assed at best, let's face it.

Interesting, could you suggest an alternative source for amplifier testing that's better (real question, I'm still learning the lay of the land in home audio,) and suggest a piece of equipment in which Amir's tests contradicted this other site?

 

[Barry_Sound]

Im amazed OP hasnt been roasted in here for suggesting amps do sound different.

 

[GXAlan]

Im amazed OP hasnt been roasted in here for suggesting amps do sound different.

We're trying to heed this call to action

Let's be a little nicer, especially to newcomers

Hello you all. While I consider our forum to be more friendly than many, it seems that we are quite harsh on new members who post things that go against our consensus view. There is no reason to pound on people hard when they say this and that sounds good to them. Let them have some time here...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Anton D]

Im amazed OP hasnt been roasted in here for suggesting amps do sound different.

It's a selective thing.

The 'sounds the same' thing only applies until it doesn't.

 

[raindance]

Of course they sound different. They both are using different types of loudness control or EQ . It is like comparing apples and cats, to re-use one of my silly comments from another post.

 

[Snoopy]

But why are you using 1200 usd speakers with 10k+ USD worth of amps?
Sell 2 of the amps, get something with Dirac, room treatment and better speakers.

 

[Barry_Sound]

But why are you using 1200 usd speakers with 10k+ USD worth of amps?

Indeed, didnt know the Luxman was that expensive. Bit out of balance.

 

[Short38]

More like $20,000 at current retail.

 

[GXAlan]

But why are you using 1200 usd speakers with 10k+ USD worth of amps?
Sell 2 of the amps, get something with Dirac, room treatment and better speakers.

This is great advice. Get better speakers

That said, even myself just 4 months ago was running the JBL XPL90 which is a $500 usd (used) speaker with the $9K Marantz PM-10. The true sale price of the Marantz PM-10 is about half that used but it is still a unbalanced system.

Now that retail audio stores are limited more and more people are buying speakers without listening to them. I have gone through so many speakers trying to find something that replaces the XPL90 and I just found that I liked it better than better measuring speakers consistently. I also liked the look since its grille fabric looks more luxurious than others.

In order to extract the most out of those speakers, I go to electronics. These are easy to measure and ship/resell. The boxes can stay in my garage without too much hassle.

The Marantz has a robust build, looks nice, has the best remote feel of any audio product I have owned (besides the SA-10 which uses the same remote). It has one of the cleanest preamp sections and used bridged HypeX NC500’s with the SMPS600 and additional protection circuitry. This meant that it was probably one of the very highest performing HypeX amps available.

And it did sound great and I have posted various measurements to try to quantify that it did sound different somehow.

I figured this would be my “forever” amp, because who needs more than 600 watts on tap? And, the build is designed to last decades. Oh and I had a nice phono stage too. This would be the amplifier than grew with me as I upgraded speakers. I think I would have equally been as happy to have a flagship Luxman, McIntosh, Accuphase or Yamaha.

Then, I moved to the Meyer Sound Amie which had 900 watts of Class D power on tap, sounded better than my XPL90 and selling the PM-10 helped to pay for the active speakers… so out went the idea of a “forever” product.

So it’s a common mistake, but I think my Meyer Sound Amie are my forever 6.5” speakers. Let’s see how long that lasts…