Yet another 2 channel + sub integrated amplifier recommendation thread

[Bun-Bun]

Hello,

I am finish up my home office desktop setup. The currently owned components are:

1. The computer
2. Topping DX3 Pro
3. Klipsch RB-81 MK II Bookshelf Speakers
4. Crown XLS2502 Power Amp (This has crossovers built in so sub management is not strictly necessary)
5. CSS XBL 12" Sub in a sealed enclosure.

What I'm missing is a power amp for the speakers and sub out/management.

I've got it narrowed down to one of the 4 options.

1. Yamaha R-N800A (room correction might be a good idea? Though the only source here is the computer...)
2. Yamaha A-S801 (the simplicity of this really appeals to me but I am concerned about the 90Hz fixed crossover, rec out to miniDSP HD maybe?, S701 not available in Canada)
3. Emotiva BasX TA2 (does everything but maybe too much and possibly meh amp?)
4. miniDSP Flex + some power amp (what power amp? LA90? The above A-S701?)
5. Something else I may have not considered? (Fosi Audio ZA3, SMSL A300?)

I'm not looking to replace the Topping DX3 Pro as the preamp since it gives me exactly the functionality that I want as far as volume control and switching to headphones. Unless there is a device basically exactly like the topping that gives sub out/management.

Help me decide! Please?

 

[Bun-Bun]

Okay, after much thought and tinkering with the sub out on my existing Denon AVR going to the crown amp (struggles to drive it, and I don't want to have to deal with this with a DIY solution if I go with a straight power amp for the speakers) I've narrowed things down.

I am wanting to do one of the two.

1. Yamaha A-S801 and just do any DSP on the computer since it will be the only source on this setup. The 95-100Hz crossover on the amp should be okay since I will be crossovering on this setup no higher than 80Hz. Somewhere between 60 and 80 I think (The Denon I have been using can only do increments of 20Hz so 60Hz or 80Hz but the crown amp's crossover can do 60,63,67,71,75 or 80Hz). And maybe add a MiniDSP Flex to this setup later or a MiniDSP 2x4 HD in parallel off the Topping output to take care of bass management if I end up not happy with the A-S801 sub out.
2. R-N800A. Has adjustable subout and YPAO. But can't find anything concrete about it's amp compared to the A-S801.

But if I'm considering the possibility of MiniDSP 2x4 HD for bass management maybe I should just go with a RCA buss bar split to a LA90 amp and MiniDSP+Crown amp.
EDIT: NVM I missed that the LA90 is less than half the power out of the Yamaha Integratedes for the same price. I must have been looking at mono output numbers originally.
Too bad the Wiim amp wasn't twice the power or the Wiim Vibeamp had subout...

EDIT2: I just ordered a DX7 Pro+ after saying I didn't want to change out the DX3 Pro.... Now I just need to figure out how to sum the XLR L/R out to the crown amp and I'm all set.

 

[djb]

I had an Emotiva PT1 pre amp which has a fixed 90hz cut off. I did not love it with my Lintons. I upgraded to the PT2 and set the cross over at 50hz to my sub. My speakers sound much fuller now. I'm running a Basic A2 amp and am very happy. You may not have the same experience with your speakers as they are not as bass capable.

I think you would be very happy with the TA2 integrated.

 

[peng]

Hello,

I am finish up my home office desktop setup. The currently owned components are:

1. The computer
2. Topping DX3 Pro
3. Klipsch RB-81 MK II Bookshelf Speakers
4. Crown XLS2502 Power Amp (This has crossovers built in so sub management is not strictly necessary)
5. CSS XBL 12" Sub in a sealed enclosure.

What I'm missing is a power amp for the speakers and sub out/management.

I've got it narrowed down to one of the 4 options.

1. Yamaha R-N800A (room correction might be a good idea? Though the only source here is the computer...)
2. Yamaha A-S801 (the simplicity of this really appeals to me but I am concerned about the 90Hz fixed crossover, rec out to miniDSP HD maybe?, S701 not available in Canada)
3. Emotiva BasX TA2 (does everything but maybe too much and possibly meh amp?)
4. miniDSP Flex + some power amp (what power amp? LA90? The above A-S701?)
5. Something else I may have not considered? (Fosi Audio ZA3, SMSL A300?)

I'm not looking to replace the Topping DX3 Pro as the preamp since it gives me exactly the functionality that I want as far as volume control and switching to headphones. Unless there is a device basically exactly like the topping that gives sub out/management.

Help me decide! Please?

I used s cheap Fosi amp for my desktop system. Something like a Fosi V3 will be good for most desktop speakers. Mine has no issue driving my KEF LS50. It replaced my NAD C326BEE that I’ll probably sell it if I can’t find other use.

I used to have a sub for that setup but since I started using Dirac Live, PC standalone version, I don’t feel the need for a sub anymore. The A-S801 is not going to do any better, except costing much more.

 

[Bun-Bun]

I had an Emotiva PT1 pre amp which has a fixed 90hz cut off. I did not love it with my Lintons. I upgraded to the PT2 and set the cross over at 50hz to my sub. My speakers sound much fuller now. I'm running a Basic A2 amp and am very happy. You may not have the same experience with your speakers as they are not as bass capable.

I think you would be very happy with the TA2 integrated.

Those are cool speakers. I'd love to hear them. Yeah a bit more capable but my setup is for a desktop.

I think you are right I would be happy with the TA2. I have plenty of Emotiva gear I am happy with. But just from a cost perspective I can get the S801 for half the price. Sucks being in Canada some times.

I used s cheap Fosi amp for my desktop system. Something like a Fosi V3 will be good for most desktop speakers. Mine has no issue driving my KEF LS50. It replaced my NAD C326BEE that I’ll probably sell it if I can’t find other use.

I used to have a sub for that setup but since I started using Dirac Live, PC standalone version, I don’t feel the need for a sub anymore. The A-S801 is not going to do any better, except costing much more.

Not true. It will also take up a lot more space

I'm not against a smaller class-d amps, my concern with the Fosi V3 would be the load dependence causing the already bright RB-81's to be even brighter (lacking PFFB).

 

[peng]

Not true about what? If it is a matter of opinions then okay, no arguments from me.

If it is based on data, I don’t see load dependence being an issue, not from Amir’s measurements or published specs, in terms of audible effects, To me the V3 is a power amp, and should be uses as a power amp for best results. I have 3 of them, and found them as good as my Hypex and Purifi class D amps, or my other much more powerful class AB amps. One just have to not over drive them. Consider them as a 45W/65W 8/4 ohms capable, they will sound great with 4 ohm nominal, 85 dB/2.83V/m speakers, near field use, say up to even 2-3 meters.

 

[Bun-Bun]

Not true about what? If it is a matter of opinions then okay, no arguments from me.

If it is based on data, I don’t see load dependence being an issue, not from Amir’s measurements or published specs, in terms of audible effects, To me the V3 is a power amp, and should be uses as a power amp for best results. I have 3 of them, and found them as good as my Hypex and Purifi class D amps, or my other much more powerful class AB amps. One just have to not over drive them. Consider them as a 45W/65W 8/4 ohms capable, they will sound great with 4 ohm nominal, 85 dB/2.83V/m speakers, near field use, say up to even 2-3 meters.

I was just making a joke about the S801 only costing more, it's also huge in comparison (taking up more desk space).

Amir's data of the V3 shows the typical class-d load dependency with increased response in treble for 8ohm loads. I'm not against a small class-d amp, especially now that I think I have a way to get signal to my sub straight from the dac. Just needs to not have load dependency.

 

[peng]

I was just making a joke about the S801 only costing more, it's also huge in comparison (taking up more desk space).

Amir's data of the V3 shows the typical class-d load dependency with increased response in treble for 8ohm loads. I'm not against a small class-d amp, especially now that I think I have a way to get signal to my sub straight from the dac. Just needs to not have load dependency.

If you can hear perfectly up to 20,000 Hz or higher, okay then the V3 may not be audibly totally transparent lol.

 

[Bun-Bun]

If you can hear perfectly up to 20,000 Hz or higher, okay then the V3 may not be audibly totally transparent lol.

Perfectly? No, but I can hear above 16kHz. The rise starts around 2-5k and goes in the opposite direction of the typical roll off in that range. It is noticeable.

EDIT: 3E A7 looks better. But not with a auto sensing on/off circuit. Those always frustrate me.
EDIT2: Topping PA7 looks good. Matches the design of the DX7 Pro+ I have on the way. Has 12V trigger too. A lot smaller on the desk than a Yamaha Integrated.

 

[peng]

I was just making a joke about the S801 only costing more, it's also huge in comparison (taking up more desk space).

Funny you mentioned "in comparison", have you the pic I posted before, on "comparison" between little class D and big class AB amp, just an example obviously. It's taken when I got my first real class D amp to replace my class AB amps:

and even the 50 WPC NAD looks huge compares to the V3 that replaced it's desktop place. The Fosi amp is so tiny you can barely see it. Wonderful technology!

 

[peng]

Perfectly? No, but I can hear above 16kHz. The rise starts around 2-5k and goes in the opposite direction of the typical roll off in that range. It is noticeable.

EDIT: 3E A7 looks better. But not with a auto sensing on/off circuit. Those always frustrate me.
EDIT2: Topping PA7 looks good. Matches the design of the DX7 Pro+ I have on the way. Has 12V trigger too. A lot smaller on the desk than a Yamaha Integrated.

You may hear a difference then but I doubt it, REW sweep is quite different than real world music listening, and the little difference in the >10 kHz range would look more different on paper if your ears position move just a couple inches in any direction.

Here's one of my old REW graphs, you can see that with Dirac Live in use, the bass is so good that I found no need to worry about a sub, let alone sub out.

The mic heard very little difference, and I heard no difference:

If you really believe the load dependence of cheap class D amps like the V3, I don't think you would have trouble with most bookshelf speakers, my LS50s are not known to be easy load, though it's impedance in the HF range does look not too difficult for cheap class Ds. Or just go with some buckeye amps, those would have great feedback design that should not have load dependence in the HF to the ultrasonic range.

My recommendations would be:
- Just grab the best Fosi class D amp you can get, or a buckeyeamp such as the:

Buckeye Amps

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

- If your Klipsch speakers do not extend to below 60 Hz, then get a sub and use DL BC, or even the basic DL license. If I understand right, you source is the PC, so the standalone version, the one I have, is the way to go.

FOSI BT20A PRO VS C326BEE, 1/12 SMOOTHED

The BT20A is probably a notch below the V3, but it sounds just as good to me, just a little less (negligibly) power.

With DL ON VS DL OFF, PSY SMOOTHED:

 

[Bun-Bun]

If you really believe the load dependence of cheap class D amps like the V3, I don't think you would have trouble with most bookshelf speakers, my LS50s are not known to be easy load, though it's impedance in the HF range does look not too difficult for cheap class Ds. Or just go with some buckeye amps, those would have great feedback design that should not have load dependence in the HF to the ultrasonic range.

Klipsch horns can have some weird loading which shows up from 2.5kHz and up can be 8-21ohm. I'm currently demoing a set of RP600M IIs and what I don't like above them is the treble and the range I am adjusting on the EQ to "fix" them is 6.3kHz-20kHz with less than 2db of adjustment. So I am quite sensitive to that upper range.

While I don't know the exact loading of the RB-81's horn, I can't say with absolute certainty that the load dependency will not affect these speakers or any speakers I get in the future. I value my time more than money so I'd rather spend a bit more and get an amp that doesn't exhibit these deficiencies.

I'd also prefer to keep the setup as simple as possible so would rather not need extensive EQing to be happy with it. Software fails and gets buggy and is just another thing to deal with. With the simple mantra in mind is also why I don't just go for a full AVR and be done with it. A simple Class-D power amp is attractive for this reason.

I'm going to do some testing today to figure out how much power I am actually using at my max listening level.

 

[Bun-Bun]

Think I blew the fuse in my meter again... but...

Yeah okay, 50W into 8ohm will be enough for me Topping PA5 II will match up with the DX7 Pro + well. RCA's to PA5 for mains and XLRs to 2:1 Mix to sum to mono to the Crown. Much simpler and smaller.

EDIT: Nice, PA5 II Plus is only $370 CAD. Half of what I was looking at spending on an integrated.

EDIT2: Oh shit, topping has a USB isolator. I've been meaning to track down my USB noise issues but maybe this will just solve them for me. Although the DX7 Pro+ might not have this issue to begin with. I'll wait and see.