Why can't we just ignore inane audio threads?

[pablolie]

It makes me wonder. I am just curious about why audio discussions have this sticky ability to draw people in to rehash the exact same ritual debates.

I have quit every other audio forum. But even here, the exact same debates exist, albeit now often focused on the last 1dB of Sinad or such.

The audio community psyche is fascinating. Guess in real life we have either none or one or two people to talk to. But online, hey, let's excacerbate menial differences.

Repeatedly.

Why oh why? We are a ridiculous small group of the population that cares about the exact same thing... music quality. Yet we collectively rehash the same discussions to drive hard and seemingly irreconcilable ritual disagreements.

 

[sam_adams]

If we didn't talk about the same old stuff, we'd have nothing to talk about.

 

[mhardy6647]

Indeed.
What are the alternatives?
We could talk about new Chinese DACs! That'd be quite a change of pace.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

An old soldier once commented on the "why" of war: "If you understand people, you understand why. If you don't understand why, you don't understand people."

Same for audio.

Jim

 

[CarbonMakerU]

It's probably similar to any large scale interest, you could debate the greatest goalie in history till the crack of doom and those interested wouldn't complain, just get louder. We at least debate in a far more civilized manner than many places out there in the anonymous verse.

 

[Mnyb]

And this is another such tread your proving your own point .

ASR is way better , but there is a severe leakage from the other audio forums and ASR has a steady increase of members so some repetition is expected , these folks come over here and starts with the same old stuff.

I’ll try to stay out of the next cable tread ? Why the f**k does any one start yet another cable tread on ASR ?
But when “they” start to claim that silver sounds brighter your in

So yeah why does ASR inherit so much stuff that made other forums useless ? Why bring it over here ? How can one be able to write without being able to read ? if you spend some time lurking you know not to start another cable tread here , you just know

 

[pablolie]

An old soldier once commented on the "why" of war: "If you understand people, you understand why. If you don't understand why, you don't understand people."

Same for audio.

Jim

But soldiers have one job they grow increasingly world weary about (if they live sadly). For most of us, audio is not our job. The battles are virtual and bloodless (for now ).

Just fascinates me.

 

[DWPress]

Do you have any objective data to present to your observation?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Just fascinates me.

Me too. From reading the posts you know these guys are intelligent, but somehow they feel compelled to make the same arguments in the same manner and often to the same people.

I guess I don't understand people.

FWIW: My time here has taught me a few new things, introduced me to a few new ideas, and opened my mind at least just a bit, so for me at least it has been time well spent.

 

[pablolie]

Me too. From reading the posts you know these guys are intelligent, but somehow they feel compelled to make the same arguments in the same manner and often to the same people.

I guess I don't understand people.

FWIW: My time here has taught me a few new things, introduced me to a few new ideas, and opened my mind at least just a bit, so for me at least it has been time well spent.

I entirely concur.

 

[pablolie]

And this is another such tread your proving your own point .

ASR is way better , but there is a severe leakage from the other audio forums and ASR has a steady increase of members so some repetition is expected , these folks come over here and starts with the same old stuff.

I’ll try to stay out of the next cable tread ? Why the f**k does any one start yet another cable tread on ASR ?
But when “they” start to claim that silver sounds brighter your in

So yeah why does ASR inherit so much stuff that made other forums useless ? Why bring it over here ? How can one be able to write without being able to read ? if you spend some time lurking you know not to start another cable tread here , you just know

great post. did you post in the squeezebox forums?

 

[OldHvyMec]

It may sound funny but people read blanket statements like, "cables don't matter," and many know they do. It's like reading about a person
bragging that he had a bunch of pieces of cracked 1950s vinyl/copper wire that will work just fine as he used scotch tape to cover the crappy
connections. I say drop that puppy in the bathtub fill it full of water, get in, plug it in and test your theory.

I KNOW it's the statements that piss me off. I could care less about how ignorant the person that made it is. Youth has a nasty habit of being
so right about being so wrong. Experience on the other hand doesn't need to be proven by me. I've seen people say that can't happen 100
times and it happened right in front of them, 100 times in a row. When the guy says step back, he doesn't need to prove it to me by setting
off a stick of dynamite at my feet. I can actually learn the easy way. LOL

What's worse is the person that can hear a bell chime 1000 miles away. I have so-so ears, BUT I thought it was cracked!

Regards

 

[sam_adams]

The one thing about the current state of ASR is that the membership is still fairly low, ≈7000 members as mentioned recently, but as the membership slowly increases due to ASR's increasing popularity, the S/N ratio is starting to drop with more posts of the type that one would expect to find on AVS than would be expected here. Then, of course, there are the trolls from WBF and SBF . . .

 

[GXAlan]

My favorite threads are ones where I get to spend other people’s money. It’s fun to recommend gear

I think the audio hobby is a shared experience in that we all start with a spark of interest. Maybe it’s a parent letting a kid play with the gear, a concert or visit somewhere. When that spark is lit, almost no one has the budget to get what they want.

As our budgets increase, our listening skills improve just as our physiology begins to falter. We make incremental upgrades, following a cycle of good and bad decisions.

Eventually we do hit an end game, whether it’s our satisfaction is high enough that we are done, or our physiology has led to the point where we stop hearing fine details, the passion for upgrading slows down. At this point, this hobby of “gear” ends and talking about it becomes a good way to reminisce about the experience, and pass on perceived words of wisdom to hopefully other audiophiles in the hobby who are versions of us in our youth.

 

[suttondesign]

i still think this forum ought to be about innovations and developments in audio, including technical observations and commentary

 

[IAtaman]

To quote an old internet meme "Because f--- you, that is why!"

Seriously though, such an interesting question to ponder about.

As a community, I think ASR was founded partly due to inability to ignore inane audio topics - three of the first four reviews are speaker cable reviews if review index is to be believed. That is back in 2016. By that time the debate on whether speaker cables make a difference to sound was, what, 3,4 decades old already?

As a person, why we can not ignore meaningless discussions, I think that is going to be very personal.

For me, I don't care if people believe in covering themselves with Elvish Honey to hear the finer details. If someone comes and says I changed my speaker cables and it is more resolving now, I really don't care. But it starts bothering me when the bullshit turns into marketing for a manufacturer or a certain product, or when it is coming from the people who manufacture or market the product. When Sony says 120KHz bandwidth on their headphones is gonna help render vocals more accurately, that annoys me. I suspect it is because then it feels like a fraud, and as social creatures, we have all evolved to react to fraud when we see it I believe.

This is my theory at least. What actually is going on, maybe I'll ask a therapist one day

 

[IAtaman]

To quote an old internet meme "Because f--- you, that is why!"

Seriously though, such an interesting question to ponder about.

As a community, I think ASR was founded partly due to inability to ignore inane audio topics - three of the first four reviews are speaker cable reviews if review index is to be believed. That is back in 2016. By that time the debate on whether speaker cables make a difference to sound was, what, 3,4 decades old already?

As a person, why we can not ignore meaningless discussions, I think that is going to be very personal.

For me, I don't care if people believe in covering themselves with Elvish Honey to hear the finer details. If someone comes and says I changed my speaker cables and it is more resolving now, I really don't care. But it starts bothering me when the bullshit turns into marketing for a manufacturer or a certain product, or when it is coming from the people who manufacture or market the product. When Sony says 120KHz bandwith on their headphones is gonna help render vocals more accurately annoys me. I suspect it is because then it feels like a fraud, and as social creatures, we have all evolved to react to fraud when we see it I believe.

This is my theory at least. What actually is going on, maybe I'll ask a therapist one day

Just after I posted this, I came across this video from Linus Tech Tips YT channel, that starts by saying:

Everybody is trying to get between you and your money, but no industry I can think of is willing to outright fraud you as hard as the audio industry.

Then he goes on to talk bout $200 a piece stickers that is supposed to increase the sound quality of your amp or sth.

So maybe that is also why

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just after I posted this, I came across this video from Linus Tech Tips YT channel, that starts by saying:

Everybody is trying to get between you and your money, but no industry I can think of is willing to outright fraud you as hard as the audio industry.

Then he goes on to talk bout $200 a piece stickers that is supposed to increase the sound quality of your amp or sth.

So maybe that is also why

Everybody is trying to get between you and your money, but no industry I can think of is willing to outright fraud you as hard as the audio industry.

I don't agree with the purple prose. Maybe no industry has been as successful while trying so hard. Homeopathy is worse, but not as successful. I can think of others trying less hard, and trying harder with fewer results. Audio ranks pretty highly in being successful in their determined efforts. Our hearing and our brains just make it easier than with almost any other of our 5 main senses. That combined with it not being a life or death matter makes it keep sliding along without so much resistance.

 

[MattHooper]

Everybody is trying to get between you and your money, but no industry I can think of is willing to outright fraud you as hard as the audio industry.

I don't agree with the purple prose. Maybe no industry has been as successful while trying so hard. Homeopathy is worse, but not as successful. I can think of others trying less hard, and trying harder with fewer results. Audio ranks pretty highly in being successful in their determined efforts. Our hearing and our brains just make it easier than with almost any other of our 5 main senses. That combined with it not being a life or death matter makes it keep sliding along without so much resistance.

High End Audio is really the perfect storm for separating audiophiles from their money, in ways that are often untethered to reality.

It appeals to the audiophile's (let's face it, normally male) gadget lust module in the brain. Shiny pieces of gear that come with a neato technical story of the "problem" the gadget solves for your audio system. So it's like catnip. At the same time most audiophiles just aren't knowledgeable enough to separate fact from fiction in the claims. And then since most use a purely subjective "try and listen" approach, that allows for biases to do the rest of the work.


*Please file that in the category of stating what everyone here already knows.

 

[IAtaman]

High End Audio is really the perfect storm for separating audiophiles from their money, in ways that are often untethered to reality.

It appeals to the audiophile's (let's face it, normally male) gadget lust module in the brain. Shiny pieces of gear that come with a neato technical story of the "problem" the gadget solves for your audio system. So it's like catnip. At the same time most audiophiles just aren't knowledgeable enough to separate fact from fiction in the claims. And then since most use a purely subjective "try and listen" approach, that allows for biases to do the rest of the work.


*Please file that in the category of stating what everyone here already knows.

Everybody is trying to get between you and your money, but no industry I can think of is willing to outright fraud you as hard as the audio industry.

I don't agree with the purple prose. Maybe no industry has been as successful while trying so hard. Homeopathy is worse, but not as successful. I can think of others trying less hard, and trying harder with fewer results. Audio ranks pretty highly in being successful in their determined efforts. Our hearing and our brains just make it easier than with almost any other of our 5 main senses. That combined with it not being a life or death matter makes it keep sliding along without so much resistance.

I think there are two parts to high end audio. One part is the good looking, luxury goods high end audio, which, along with the overall luxury goods market, is growing quite strongly I suppose. Like a fancy car, or an expensive whiskey, except audio is subtler. These are sold for their looks and exclusivity, and as long as they don't sound terrible, they can get away with their price tags because of their calacatta marble bases and gold plated terminals.

Then there is the dark side of the audio. Cable lifters, stickers, power conditioners. The homeopathy people. The fraudsters.

Maybe the magic of audio industry's fraudulence is that the genuine and the fake are so intertwined. Companies like PS Audio, Chord and Sony - they do manufacture decent products, but then go and deploy marketing schemes full of snake oil BS from the dark side in order to sell their expensive products in a commoditizing market. You don't see that in healthcare, there are not many respectable healthcare facilities that offer cancer treatment and homeopathy at the same time. Maybe that is what makes audio industry the most willing to fraud; the fact that the supposedly good guys are also in on the game?