Why are so few new products being introduced?

[Terry Stahly]

I only follow about ten to fifteen high end audio companies but I am confused as to why so few new so called improved models or new products are being introduced. Krell, Revel, Macintosh, Bowers Wilkins, Marantz, Martin Logan, Wilson etc. In my opinion new models seldom are audible improvements but more marketing for the most part. I see improvements in Sony TV’s but speaker cables, Amps, speakers come on after fifty years of buying high end audio the audio side of things has not moved the needle much in the past twenty years.

 

[sweetchaos]

Have you seen my new active/passive speakers that were announced in the last few years thread?

See signature for link.

Even if Amir or Erin starts testing one speaker per day, they won’t run out of new speakers to test anytime soon.

 

[BlackTalon]

Not sure how speaker cables can 'improve', other then the network boxes, etc. dying a painful, but hopefully quick, death. Amps can't go much beyond flat frequency response -- that was conquered decades ago, and all the 'high-end' makers basically just 'improve' by building in colorations.

Speakers are the big place, and as @sweetchaos indicated there has been loads and loads of new ones. And largely with nice improvements over 20 years ago.

CD/ DACs are already about as good as they can get, and that's at price points often far below $150. It's hard for Levinson, etc. to roll out a $20k DAC these days and not look silly.

 

[Dunring]

With so many things hitting 120 SINAD there's nowhere to go except features and connectivity. Now the MQA junk is over, they need a must-have feature to spur new models and stand out.

 

[Zapper]

I only follow about ten to fifteen high end audio companies but I am confused as to why so few new so called improved models or new products are being introduced. Krell, Revel, Macintosh, Bowers Wilkins, Marantz, Martin Logan, Wilson etc. In my opinion new models seldom are audible improvements but more marketing for the most part. I see improvements in Sony TV’s but speaker cables, Amps, speakers come on after fifty years of buying high end audio the audio side of things has not moved the needle much in the past twenty years.

Audio electronics is a solved problem. Actually it was solved a long time ago and has been an exercise in overkill ever since. And now even the overkill is cheap.

There are actually a lot of innovative products being produced, just not by the companies you mentioned. Things like the WiiM products are brilliant and cheap.

Speakers aren't solved yet, but with DSP powered active speakers and Klippel NFS in the hands of more designers, they're getting there. I've seen more real advancements in speaker design in the last decade than any previous decade in my lifetime. So I agree with sweetchaos and BlackTalon - speakers are where the action is.

 

[sweetchaos]

State-of-the-art IEM headphone performance at US$20-50 (posted in the last few months)...

7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM
7Hz Salnotes Zero IEM
Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM
Truthear x Crinacle Zero IEM

All golfing panthers from Amir.

I'm pretty sure IEMs are a solved problem now.

 

[Titmouse]

@Zapper @BlackTalon What speakers brands are you viewing as leading in new improvements for the price?

 

[sweetchaos]

There's a lot of speakers being reviewed by Amir and Erin, but not all of them get to the top or outperform others.

Since im adding passive and active speakers to my recommendation threads as Amir or Erin reviews new speakers, here's the noteworthy speaker brands that got reviewed and then made my recommendation thread in 2023, due to their winning performance.

The "passive speaker" brands:
- Arendal Sound
- Ascend Acoustics
- Kef
- March Audio
- Philharmonic
- Revel

The "active speaker" brands:
- Kef
- Neumann
- Thomann
- Vanatoo

Links in signature.

 

[Zapper]

There's a lot of speakers being reviewed by Amir and Erin, but not all of them get to the top or outperform others.

Since im adding passive and active speakers to my threads as Amir or Erin reviews new speakers, here's the noteworthy speaker brands that got reviewed and instantly make my recommendation list in 2023, due to their winning performance.

The "passive speaker" brands:
- Arendal Sound
- Ascend Acoustics
- Kef
- March Audio
- Philharmonic
- Revel

The "active speaker" brands:
- Kef
- Neumann
- Thomann
- Vanatoo

Links in signature.

I like your list. I would add Genelec to the actives. Also Kali and JBL for a lower price point.

Ascend Acoustics is noteworthy for publishing Klippel NFS data for their speaker. Their most recent designs test extremely well.

 

[sweetchaos]

I like your list. I would add Genelec to the actives. Also Kali and JBL for a lower price point.

I haven’t added those brands to my recommendation thread in 2023, but prior to 2023.

The quick list above just shows which brands I’ve added in 2023 to my recommendation thread, meaning, which brands are innovating new products with performance that can beat the competition.

You can see all the brands that perform well on the recommendation thread.

 

[SIY]

There are actually a lot of innovative products being produced, just not by the companies you mentioned.

This. Those companies are fashion audio dinosaurs making slightly tarted-up versions of the same old stuff. Wiim, Nilai, Hypex, Purifi, Axign, that's where the interesting stuff is happening for electronics.

 

[Zapper]

This. Those companies are fashion audio dinosaurs making slightly tarted-up versions of the same old stuff. Wiim, Nilai, Hypex, Purifi, Axign, that's where the interesting stuff is happening for electronics.

Topping, Schiit, SMSL, miniDSP are some other brands that get a lot of love on this site.

 

[Killingbeans]

I only follow about ten to fifteen high end audio companies but I am confused as to why so few new so called improved models or new products are being introduced. Krell, Revel, Macintosh, Bowers Wilkins, Marantz, Martin Logan, Wilson etc. In my opinion new models seldom are audible improvements but more marketing for the most part. I see improvements in Sony TV’s but speaker cables, Amps, speakers come on after fifty years of buying high end audio the audio side of things has not moved the needle much in the past twenty years.

That's because most aspects of audio reproduction hit the point of diminishing returns several decades ago.

And most of the remaining aspects, that still have substantial room for improvement, aren't seen as sexy/romantic in the eyes of the typical audio enthusiast.

High power density, DSP functionality, component integration, flat in-room responses and ease of use are seldom appreciated, if not loathed.

So, the old dinosaurs just keep doing what they've always done. Some of them have even shifted their focus from engineering to snake-oil in a desperate attempt at keeping up the appearance of "innovation". It's really sad.

There's one good thing about the antiquated brands though. Many of them make stuff that's built like a tank, and when it finally breaks/fails, most repair shops can fix them fairly easily.

And BTW, like others have also pointed out; Whoever told you that there's improvements to be had in speaker cables, is an absolute fraud

 

[Terry Stahly]

I concur, I don’t believe I will be replacing my three large Krell amps, Revel speakers, Balancedforce 212 subs, Marantz AV10, Lumin T3 in the next fifteen to twenty years unless formats change and the AV10 or Lumin are not up to speed with new whatever.

I think most agree that whatever your budget there is a plethora of quality products on the market that will last a very long time.

 

[Zapper]

@Zapper @BlackTalon What speakers brands are you viewing as leading in new improvements for the price?

I don't claim a comprehensive knowledge, just the brands I've been following. I am interested in speakers that measure well and review well subjectively. Bonus points if their manufacturer publishes spinorama or similar data.

I like sweetchaos' list above. For powered speakers, Neumann and Genelec are two top tier brands catering to the pro market. Neumann makes more aggressive use of DSP in their latest releases to get ruler-flat frequency response. Kali makes similar types of products at a much lower price point. The Kali speakers have improved rapidly in their latest versions, although not yet at Neumann/Genelec standards. JBL makes a wide range of speakers and have some inexpensive monitors that have tested well and are recommended by Amir. KEF is focused on home audio and is one of the highest tech and most science driven manufacturers of home audio speakers. KEF has a line of powered speakers with excellent characteristics.

For passives, Revel benefits from being part of Harman International which employed Dr. Floyd Toole, the developer of the spinorama characterization method. Ascend Acoustics is a small company owned by David Fabrikant. David bought a Klippel NFS and has made significant improvements in his speakers since. Ascend publishes the Klippel data, so you can see how good they measure. For an extra fee they will measure the actual speakers you purchase and send you the data. And KEF passive speakers are as impressive as their powered counterparts. KEF specializes in coaxial speakers, with the tweeter in the center of the midwoofer. Other companies have such drivers, including Genelec and Kali, but KEF has been developing these for decades and their version is arguably the most refined.

Check out spinorama.org for spin data for many speaker types. Most of the data comes from Amir, Erin at erinsaudiocorner.com, or the manufacturer.