Why are single drivers disliked to such an extent by most in this forum?

[holdingpants01]

Aren't you afraid that using a driver with so much uhm personality will result in mixes that don't translate well to good speakers?

like i said, it's just an alternative monitoring to the main one

 

[mhardy6647]

Supply chain shock (IIRC civil war in the DR Congo) and cost, but they have another big disadvantage - demagnetization.

See, e.g. https://greatplainsaudio.com/alnico-magnets-degaussing-losing-magnetic-field/

Maybe when a 30W amp was big time that was less of an issue than now, when I think it’s fair to say 200W is a more common figure.



I think this driver may have been originally designed by Mark Dodd, who is better known for first reinventing the Tannoy Dual Concentric with his "tulip waveguide" units and then reinventing the KEF Uni-Q in its current form.

Point being, if an industry titan such as Mark Dodd can't reinvent the single dynamic driver system into something competent, probably nobody can!

Plus, I believe that cobalt was/is a "strategic material" -- and the strategists of the world weren't and still aren't (by and large) interested in loudspeakers.

Aren't you afraid that using a driver with so much uhm personality will result in mixes that don't translate well to good speakers?

umm... Horrortones.


(In fairness, I don't think that even the most execrable-sounding pop recordings were actually mixed or mastered using Auratones -- but they did/do get at least listened to with a pair... or a pair of NS-10m ).


(In

 

[computer-audiophile]

It took me a while to realize that most of the compliments were from people who were simply using me to reinforce their own biases.

... this does not apply to me as an amateur. I am, so to speak, an independent sound-researcher without financial interests in this field. But it was clear that such deprecating comments would come.

My professional bio in brief is in my profile.

 

[fpitas]

Plus, I believe that cobalt was/is a "strategic material" -- and the strategists of the world weren't and still aren't (by and large) interested in loudspeakers.

umm... Horrortones.


(In fairness, I don't think that even the most execrable-sounding pop recordings were actually mixed or mastered using Auratones -- but they did/do get at least listened to with a pair... or a pair of NS-10m ).


(In

Yes, at times cobalt was a big deal. All good reasons that neodymium is the cat's meow today. Smaller, lighter, cheaper. To my knowledge it's also harder to demagnetize than alnico.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Listen to wide-range speakers against conventional designs in a blind test, and see for yourself whether the "special qualities" survive the test. Maybe they will ...... and maybe they won't.

I've listened to countless (!) speakers and it only takes me a few seconds to hear which way it's going with them. Some were interesting, but most were only average stuff. Yes, I use my ears. I even participated in some blind tests on different audio subjects. But these experiences can only be described, you better do not need to hope for understanding in the ASR. I know that it is completely pointless. Why do I do it? It is perhaps my fault that I like to palaver about it.

 

[holdingpants01]

Plus, I believe that cobalt was/is a "strategic material" -- and the strategists of the world weren't and still aren't (by and large) interested in loudspeakers.

umm... Horrortones.


(In fairness, I don't think that even the most execrable-sounding pop recordings were actually mixed or mastered using Auratones -- but they did/do get at least listened to with a pair... or a pair of NS-10m ).


(In

Ns10 are quite similar in some ways, especially regarding the low end, but you still have engineers praising them as neutral speakers, which is baffling. But some people say that about HD600 as well so yeah

 

[computer-audiophile]

To come back to the practice: Another high-quality full-range loudspeaker that has made it to some fame, especially in the German audio scene, is the SALABERT full-range loudspeaker from the French manufacturer PHY-HP.

Here in the picture you can see SOLOVOX speakers with this driver, which audio friends had brought me for comparison with my own designs at that time.

 

[computer-audiophile]

oder einem Paar NS-10m angehört

I could never understand the hype around the NS10. To my ears they sound really bad.
Oddly enough, Yamaha can certainly make speakers in the same or even smaller size that sound good imo, e.g. those from the Pianocraft series.

 

[Down South]

I havn't read all 16 pages of this thread but I doubt anyone has mentioned Dr. Oskar Heil and his - AMT, air motion transformer. At the time of his death he was working on a full range AMT. AFAIK no one has persevered with his work.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I havn't read all 16 pages of this thread but I doubt anyone has mentioned Dr. Oskar Heil and his - AMT, air motion transformer. At the time of his death he was working on a full range AMT. AFAIK no one has persevered with his work.

Interesting. It would be great if there was such a wideband speaker. Then it would be interesting to know if it works well in practice.

 

[melvinjames]

Mark & Daniel's AMT driver, while not full-range, is spec'd 200Kh - 22KHz.

Mark & Daniel Ultrumax U-1

 

[mhardy6647]

Yes, at times cobalt was a big deal. All good reasons that neodymium is the cat's meow today. Smaller, lighter, cheaper. To my knowledge it's also harder to demagnetize than alnico.

I think all of the ceramic and/or rare earth magnets are way less susceptible to shock-induced loss of magnetism than is AlNiCo. That's the Achilles' Heel of AlNiCo.

Seems like drivers with Neo magnets are 'spensiver (at least than their ceramic cousins), but that's anecdotal.

 

[fpitas]

I think all of the ceramic and/or rare earth magnets are way less susceptible to shock-induced loss of magnetism than is AlNiCo. That's the Achilles' Heel of AlNiCo.

Seems like drivers with Neo magnets are 'spensiver (at least than their ceramic cousins), but that's anecdotal.

Right now it's only new pro drivers that get it. Dunno if that's because of cost, or the companies can still use old ferrite motor designs in their consumer drivers.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Right now it's only new pro drivers that get it.

And small manufacturers assemble strong magnets with neodymium pins. I've seen this with Wolf from Langa, for example.

BTW: I like this speaker design from him. Wolf has a very good sense of proportion and style imo! Full range with bass extender. But I have not yet heard this one myself. Other beautiful speakers from Wolf from Langa I know very well from meets.

 

[fpitas]

And small manufacturers assemble strong magnets with neodymium pins. I've seen this with Wolf from Langa, for example.

BTW: I like this speaker design from him. Full range with bass extender. But I have not yet heard this one myself. Other beautiful speakers from Wolf from Langa I know very well.

I didn't know that. I thought you pretty much had to magnetize after motor assembly.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I didn't know that. I thought you pretty much had to magnetize after motor assembly.

I have not yet observed exactly how they do it. But some also have normal magnetization devices for speakers. A colleague once remagnetized horn drivers for me.

 

[Down South]

Interesting. It would be great if there was such a wideband speaker. Then it would be interesting to know if it works well in practice.

His tweeter/mid range was superb.

 

[IPunchCholla]

like i said, it's just an alternative monitoring to the main one

Is there a reason you change out speakers rather than use software? I’m asking as I am using ARC3 for room correction and it has the option to simulate many different types of speakers (phones, laptops, small portables, etc. ) and it makes sense to me that I can simulate worse speakers from my better ones, but not the opposite. But I’m not a pro, so was curious.

 

[holdingpants01]

Is there a reason you change out speakers rather than use software? I’m asking as I am using ARC3 for room correction and it has the option to simulate many different types of speakers (phones, laptops, small portables, etc. ) and it makes sense to me that I can simulate worse speakers from my better ones, but not the opposite. But I’m not a pro, so was curious.

not always, for example you can't convincingly emulate different placement of a speaker, quite a lot engineers use single auratone speaker to have a reference of a real mono single source in the middle, not just phantom one. You can't emulate closed box design with bass reflex one, you can't emulate different beam width, you can't make nearfield coaxial monitors sound like a floor standing domestic speakers further away and it's not even a matter of one being better than the other, just different. As far as I know ARC3 only emulates the EQ curves of different speakers, so no nonlinearities are being added, which could be useful if you want to test for example to what extent a low bass would physically excite or distort a small speaker in a given mix.
However it works for some people, for example there's a system controlled by a remote in all Barefoot monitors which changes the overall sound of them to emulate same stuff. I didn't like it when I tried them, as it seemed like just an EQ curve, but it could be usable. Some engineers like Shawn Everett use a multiband compressor plugin just to solo certain bands, it's like soloing subwoofer or a tweeter, to hear what's going on in very specific frequency area but without distractions from the rest of the spectrum.
What I like about referencing is to change the environment all together. So I like to hear mixes in my car because it's boomy (100Hz and around is crucial to get right with it), with road noises drowning the details (so I can hear what's really sticking out), and with skewed stereo field. Or when I'm at home with my laptop, so no bass at all and very close to my face, this also shows a completely different perspective and it's impossible to emulate with software and speakers further away. I have a friend who uses a boombox that sits below the desk and it's playing the other side of the room, he likes to check mixes on it to hear if anything is sticking out, in a way like a passive listener would with music playing in the background.

 

[Duke]

I havn't read all 16 pages of this thread but I doubt anyone has mentioned Dr. Oskar Heil and his - AMT, air motion transformer. At the time of his death he was working on a full range AMT. AFAIK no one has persevered with his work.

If you mean the Transar, it was a two-way dipole.