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What does Trinnov do that others don’t?

DonH56

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What will be your multi-channel source?
Some sort of multi-channel player, of course. The classic was the Oppo, or you could use a basic AVR/AVP, or play ripped SACDs or whatever from your PC using whatever SW you have. I do not know what PC player software is available (Roxio? Creator?). AFAIK the codecs from Dolby, IMAX, THX, etc. are not available (licensed) to individual consumers so you'd have to get some commercial SW (player) package but it is not something I follow.
 

sarumbear

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Some sort of multi-channel player, of course. The classic was the Oppo, or you could use a basic AVR/AVP, or play ripped SACDs or whatever from your PC using whatever SW you have. I do not know what PC player software is available (Roxio? Creator?). AFAIK the codecs from Dolby, IMAX, THX, etc. are not available (licensed) to individual consumers so you'd have to get some commercial SW (player) package but it is not something I follow.
But there are no multi-channel players that has more than 8 channel outputs is there? You need more than 8 channels to accommodate modern formats used in spatial audio, like Dolby Atmos, which you admit is not possible to be decoded by individuals.

You sound like writing a wish list. I urge you to confirm the availability of your sources before planning the hardware/software to play them.
 
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DonH56

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But there are no multi-channel players that has more than 8 channel outputs is there? You need more than 8 channels to accommodate modern formats used in spatial audio, like Dolby Atmos, which you admit is not possible to decode for individuals.
As I said, I don't know what is available, this is not something I follow. Nor do I know how Dolby licensing works so saying "you admit" is assigning knowledge I do not have. AFAIK means "as far as I know", which in this case is not much. Windows used to do it but only for 5.1 or 7.1, no idea if it can do more now. I have no idea what standalone hardware or software Dolby (etc.) decoders are available. I have always had a dedicated receiver or processor. The only multichannel SW I have used was for recording, was expensive, and not targeted toward typical consumers (things like ProTools).

Edit: Here is what came up first in a search for Dolby Atmos SW -- it is a professional suite, but not Pro-Tools and I do not know anything about it, but cheaper than a Trinnov: https://www.rspeaudio.com/Dolby-Atmos-Mastering-Suite-p/dolby-atmos-mastering-suite.htm No idea if it would do what the you or the OP want to do. I'm too lazy, I just want to put in the movie and hit "play".
 
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sarumbear

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As I said, I don't know what is available, this is not something I follow. Nor do I know how Dolby licensing works so saying "you admit" is assigning knowledge I do not have. AFAIK means "as far as I know", which in this case is not much. Windows used to do it but only for 5.1 or 7.1, no idea if it can do more now. I have no idea what standalone hardware or software Dolby (etc.) decoders are available. I have always had a dedicated receiver or processor. The only multichannel SW I have used was for recording, was expensive, and not targeted toward typical consumers (things like ProTools).
I am sorry that I misunderstand the reason of your posts and using the word "admit" wrongly. I thought you are considering creating a PC based solution to replace an AVP/AVR. I was trying to for-worn you that in the current market any DIY solution will be limited to maximum 7.1 surround audio and you cannot playback any of the spatial audio formats.
 

Andysu

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Trinnov can spatially remap speakers so they sound like they're in different locations than they actually are, and it apparently actually works, which is not something I've ever heard of anyone else even attempting to get right. So that's pretty cool.

I believe Trinnov's 3D mic, in addition to showing precise spatial locations of all speakers, can also separately measure speaker direct and first reflection sound and show them to you separately. That's quite useful because while you can sorta do this with REW and windowing, it takes some trial and error and guesswork.


Yeah, kind of surprised about this, but Trinnov has so much manual control I'm sure you could use MSO and just punch the filters and delay in.
too skeptical about wasting £28k on something that if tested if i tested it, if i brought 32, i keep it less than 30 days then demand my full money back. no i don;t need to do that i go to showroom and demand my testing or i don't buy it, and salesman doesn't get his compression £ bonus. i was 90% last year going to drop £28k but a good close friend talked me out of it and glad he did as £28k for what looks cheap with the unit like cheap pc computer from the back, and yes i don't care if its all software up-gradable so is my pc up gradable it still a cheap pc at end of the day.
i would say there is some plain simply phase, adjustment or polarity of a sort on one of the many clusters of array surrounds or a time delay of a sort set at one of the arrays of the left or right side surrounds as i can do the same on less cheaper cinema THX ref and make the surround arrays sound as if there invisible? no that makes no sense make the sound invisible? make the speaker invisible well that's total BS unless they are array clusters hidden behind a fabric or flush mounted and wall speakers i wouldn't touch with a badge pole.

and most that buy a 32 ain't gonna use all the speakers in their home now so be waste of money and not using JBL cinema PA speakers would be even more waste of money, least for me as i know what to look for, listen for and feel for, and i would be 100% disappointed with a trinnov32 after a few hours, just as i was disappointed with the denon avc-x8500h.

nope i wouldn't buy a trinnov 32 garbage trash product as it only end up in the Cat Litter Box.
 

phoenixdogfan

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But there are no multi-channel players that has more than 8 channel outputs is there? You need more than 8 channels to accommodate modern formats used in spatial audio, like Dolby Atmos, which you admit is not possible to be decoded by individuals.

You sound like writing a wish list. I urge you to confirm the availability of your sources before planning the hardware/software to play them.
Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro 3D are not available for PC's or workstations, only dedicated Processors/Receivers.
 

DonH56

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I am sorry that I misunderstand the reason of your posts and using the word "admit" wrongly. I thought you are considering creating a PC based solution to replace an AVP/AVR. I was trying to for-worn you that in the current market any DIY solution will be limited to maximum 7.1 surround audio and you cannot playback any of the spatial audio formats.
No worries, "you admit" read like I was on trial...

No, not at all, I have no plans to create any sort of PC-based solution. I was responding to the original poster and did not see your post about the codecs. The original poster was initially asking how Trinnov compared to Audyssey and Dirac Live, but that is a full HW+SW solution compared to SW for room correction. I was not sure exactly what he was comparing. In later posts he said he was considering a software solution, so I was trying to answer that. The short answer from me is "I do not know". The SW tools I know anything about (and that is very, very little) are professional mastering tools, not consumer products. I am still confused about what exactly the original poster wants, but clearly whatever it is, is not something I know anything about. I like my Trinnov but it would be overkill for me just for room correction.

I actually own a JBL Synthesis SDP-75, basically a rebadged Trinnov Altitude 32 with some custom Harman add-ons and some Trinnov features disabled. You can get an Altitude 32 in versions from 16 to 32 channels, I think, and up to 64 channels with an expansion box. Mine is actually a 24-channel version; I only needed 16, but it is a refurbished unit so I got the extra eight channels "for free".
 

Golfx

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too skeptical about wasting £28k on something that if tested if i tested it, if i brought 32, i keep it less than 30 days then demand my full money back. no i don;t need to do that i go to showroom and demand my testing or i don't buy it, and salesman doesn't get his compression £ bonus. i was 90% last year going to drop £28k but a good close friend talked me out of it and glad he did as £28k for what looks cheap with the unit like cheap pc computer from the back, and yes i don't care if its all software up-gradable so is my pc up gradable it still a cheap pc at end of the day.
i would say there is some plain simply phase, adjustment or polarity of a sort on one of the many clusters of array surrounds or a time delay of a sort set at one of the arrays of the left or right side surrounds as i can do the same on less cheaper cinema THX ref and make the surround arrays sound as if there invisible? no that makes no sense make the sound invisible? make the speaker invisible well that's total BS unless they are array clusters hidden behind a fabric or flush mounted and wall speakers i wouldn't touch with a badge pole.

and most that buy a 32 ain't gonna use all the speakers in their home now so be waste of money and not using JBL cinema PA speakers would be even more waste of money, least for me as i know what to look for, listen for and feel for, and i would be 100% disappointed with a trinnov32 after a few hours, just as i was disappointed with the denon avc-x8500h.

nope i wouldn't buy a trinnov 32 garbage trash product as it only end up in the Cat Litter Box.
You speak of money as if it is the major factor—to me it is not. You sound angry.
 

sarumbear

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No worries, "you admit" read like I was on trial...

No, not at all, I have no plans to create any sort of PC-based solution. I was responding to the original poster and did not see your post about the codecs. The original poster was initially asking how Trinnov compared to Audyssey and Dirac Live, but that is a full HW+SW solution compared to SW for room correction. I was not sure exactly what he was comparing. In later posts he said he was considering a software solution, so I was trying to answer that. The short answer from me is "I do not know". The SW tools I know anything about (and that is very, very little) are professional mastering tools, not consumer products. I am still confused about what exactly the original poster wants, but clearly whatever it is, is not something I know anything about. I like my Trinnov but it would be overkill for me just for room correction.

I actually own a JBL Synthesis SDP-75, basically a rebadged Trinnov Altitude 32 with some custom Harman add-ons and some Trinnov features disabled. You can get an Altitude 32 in versions from 16 to 32 channels, I think, and up to 64 channels with an expansion box. Mine is actually a 24-channel version; I only needed 16, but it is a refurbished unit so I got the extra eight channels "for free".
Once again, sorry for my word choice. :)

I own an Altitude 16. It replaced an Lyngdorf 60. My system is 7.2.4.
 
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Sancus

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The vast majority of audio content above 5.1/7.1 multi-channel is Dolby Atmos, and software playback of consumer-encoded Dolby Atmos is not possible. Hardware devices(AVR/AVP usually) are required.

The professional tools that do Atmos mastering/mixing won't play consumer formatted content, the file format used during mixing/mastering is different from the final rendered consumer format. Nobody has broken the consumer decoding/playback algorithms so you can't play that content with open source or 3rd party tools.

There is a lot of Atmos home theatre content(most new movies and higher budget tv shows on Netflix and some others) and some music(Tidal/Apple), probably 500-1000 albums by now between the two. Atmos is a high priority in the big/medium budget music industry right now so content production is accelerating, but the total stock of albums is still small.

Not elaborating on upmixing but I prefer Auro3D to unmodified stereo most of the time as well.

The "standard" for (digital) content playback right is an Nvidia Shield TV Pro or AppleTV for both streaming and Plex for local ripped media(Bluray/DVD/SACD/whatever). This has the widest compatibility and lowest cost. The Oppo players are good but only worth it if you have a lot of physical media.
 

Dj7675

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nope i wouldn't buy a trinnov 32 garbage trash product as it only end up in the Cat Litter Box.
So.... Trinnov garbage.... All Harman speakers... garbage. Denon X8500 Garbage. So that would include all Revel such as Salon2, JBL M2/708i/p etc..., Dolby Atmos garbage.... Dolby DSU garbage... I'm sure there is a lot I have missed. Very interesting list of garbage.... garbage well worth owning IMO.
 

mkt

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The vast majority of audio content above 5.1/7.1 multi-channel is Dolby Atmos, and software playback of consumer-encoded Dolby Atmos is not possible. Hardware devices(AVR/AVP usually) are required.
A minor clarification to that is that Apple Music on a Mac does output spatial audio to 5.1.2. Nothing else (e.g., VLC, QuickTime player, etc) works though. (I have Mac-> via USB -> 8-channel DAC -> 7 speakers + sub.)
 

sarumbear

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A minor clarification to that is that Apple Music on a Mac does output spatial audio to 5.1.2. Nothing else (e.g., VLC, QuickTime player, etc) works though. (I have Mac-> via USB -> 8-channel DAC -> 7 speakers + sub.)
Isn't that just surround? Shouldn't spatial audio means sounds coming from above as well, i.e. 3D audio?
 

mkt

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sarumbear

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Sancus

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A minor clarification to that is that Apple Music on a Mac does output spatial audio to 5.1.2. Nothing else (e.g., VLC, QuickTime player, etc) works though. (I have Mac-> via USB -> 8-channel DAC -> 7 speakers + sub.)
Wait... really? How does that work? Does MacOS have an interface to define specific channels as height channels? Is this documented somewhere?

I've never heard of this functionality before. You can't do that on PC.
 

pablolie

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Interesting thread.

One of my main questions, which I have had before this thread, is... in this age of sophisticated corrections and integration with subs etc etc... are we STILL testing for the right parameters when evaluating stand-alone components?

We still measure stand alone components (speakers, amplifiers, etc) as if they have to deliver it all on their own, when in fact it seems we can seemingly correct all of it.

One example is that, on this very website, headphones are always evaluated on fundamentals plus EQ. But speakers or amps are never matched with components that typically optimize their performance in a real world environment.
 

sarumbear

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Wait... really? How does that work? Does MacOS have an interface to define specific channels as height channels? Is this documented somewhere?

I've never heard of this functionality before. You can't do that on PC.
Poster said you will use an 8ch USB DAC.
 

mkt

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Wait... really? How does that work? Does MacOS have an interface to define specific channels as height channels? Is this documented somewhere?

I've never heard of this functionality before. You can't do that on PC.
Usually we cannot have nice things but Audio MIDI Setup is nice, and in the new macOS it has atmos. I wonder if it does higher channel counts (i.e., for an audio interface), but I don't have anything with more channels. Still given the size of this niche audience, it seems like a gift.
1646695187538.png

PS. My "heights" are still sitting on floor. One thing at a time.
 

ernestcarl

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Usually we cannot have nice things but Audio MIDI Setup is nice, and in the new macOS it has atmos. I wonder if it does higher channel counts (i.e., for an audio interface), but I don't have anything with more channels. Still given the size of this niche audience, it seems like a gift.
View attachment 191047
PS. My "heights" are still sitting on floor. One thing at a time.

That's nice! I hope something like this capability can be added into Windows someday.
 
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