What does Trinnov do that others don’t?

[hollis]

Very into this as well. I currently use JRiver for a 5.1 system for streaming apps like Netflix, and use Dirac Live 3 as DSP together with an Octo 8 for DAC/Preamp. Thinking about upgrading to a Mac Mini later this year. If there is a way to output a 7.1.4 LPCM ATMOS stream to my USB DACS (I have an Octo 8 and and Motu M4), I'd love to know about it. Also thinking about upgrading to Audiolense XO later this year. I have also identified some super cheap surrounds which I think could be repurposed to height channels, along with a cheap, high quality amp to drive them (Aiyima A07).

I currently get Atmos over headphone via a 24 Channel studio based PRIR of D&D 8C's over my Smyth A16 Realizer. My sources for Atmos content are my LG C1 via eARC, and my NVidia shield. The A16 Realizer is also capable of outputting up to 16 Channels of ATMOS/DTS-X/Auro 3D via its analog line outs, but it has no DSP or EQ for those channels, at least not yet, they constantly add things to the software--so it could also be a path to ATMOS. Smyth is also contemplating adding multichannel Dirac Live to the unit as well. But, for right now, it would be a challenge, I think, to use the unit with no DSP except for some capability to adjust output gain on each individual channel.

Ultimately, my goal is to use my existing PC based system and find a way (either via a PC or my A16 Realizer) to expand it into a 5.1.4 Atmos system for relatively little money--around $2k-- by using cheap repurposed used surrounds as height channels together with the cheap Aiyima amps.

I think this will be an interesting project, and if anyone has any ideas on how to either use a Pc or Mac, or an A16 Realizer as an Atmos renderer, I would welcome any words of wisdom.

You are following a similar upgrade path to me. I have been running hardware Dirac, but I am testing a Octo8 so that I can leave the minidsp platform. Future DSP would be via Audiolens (credit to MitchCo).

Height channels and a PC, sorry, but I have found no possible way to run Atmos or any native immersive content from a PC. The best a PC can do, is pass through native content via HDMI to a AVR, which is a solution I think both of us reject.

My next experiments will be in running 6.1 from PC with two subs. I dont use a center channel. So that saturates all 8ch of the Okto. My outgoing DAC is a Lynx Auro8 which I could repurpose as a heights dac, but, alas, no legal way to get native heights info.... except a loophole. Some subjective youtubers (and this is getting deeply subjective), have the opinion that Auro3d upmixing is better than native Atmos, even when a native Atmos track is available. My end-game experiments will be with trying out some professional Auro VST upmixing plugings, loaded into Jriver. That might be the best of both worlds.

 

[Axo1989]

You are following a similar upgrade path to me. I have been running hardware Dirac, but I am testing a Octo8 so that I can leave the minidsp platform. Future DSP would be via Audiolens (credit to MitchCo).

Height channels and a PC, sorry, but I have found no possible way to run Atmos or any native immersive content from a PC. The best a PC can do, is pass through native content via HDMI to a AVR, which is a solution I think both of us reject.

My next experiments will be in running 6.1 from PC with two subs. I dont use a center channel. So that saturates all 8ch of the Okto. My outgoing DAC is a Lynx Auro8 which I could repurpose as a heights dac, but, alas, no legal way to get native heights info.... except a loophole. Some subjective youtubers (and this is getting deeply subjective), have the opinion that Auro3d upmixing is better than native Atmos, even when a native Atmos track is available. My end-game experiments will be with trying out some professional Auro VST upmixing plugings, loaded into Jriver. That might be the best of both worlds.

Regarding using a PC as source for Atmos/spatial content my Windows experience these days is limited app testing in a VM—so I don't necessarily explore new features—but from posts here I gather there's support for surround.bass but not surround.bass.height formats, so no native Atmos, etc.

As @phoenixdogfan mentioned possibly using a Mac Mini. In that case there's macOS support via CoreAudio currently (up to 7.1.4 when I last checked—see post #57). So Atmos will work, from apps that support it. I'm using the Apple TV.app (running on a Mac, not to be confused with the AppleTV hardware device) so you'd also want to check whether other native or web apps (in specific browsers) will work for the content you are interested in. For non-streamed content, the player app would have to use the relevant CoreAudio APIs, I don't know if any do.

An Okto or exaSound 8-channel DAC will give you 5.1.2 so to go higher you can use multiple DACs as an 'aggregated audio device' and set one of them to be the master clock via macOS Audio Midi Setup.app

 

[retro]

Height channels and a PC, sorry, but I have found no possible way to run Atmos or any native immersive content from a PC. The best a PC can do, is pass through native content via HDMI to a AVR, which is a solution I think both of us reject.

Regarding using a PC as source for Atmos/spatial content my Windows experience these days is limited app testing in a VM—so I don't necessarily explore new features—but from posts here I gather there's support for surround.bass but not surround.bass.height formats, so no native Atmos, etc.

You guys are not updated.. But to your defense, this solution has only been "out" for less than two months.
Atmos can in fact be decoded on both PC/Mac. Auro 3D works on mac currently, but a Win version is in the works.
It's not userfriendly. Only playback of files currently on Win, so the content needs to be ripped first. I always do that anyway. In addition, Mac can also play and decode streamed lossy content from like Apple Music, which Win can not.

But we can now play decoded Atmos and Auro3D in our computers, with all the benefits it gives. I'm all in..!

Have already posted the links here a couple of times. Like my daughters always answer me when I ask them something...dad, just google it..

 

[Axo1989]

You guys are not updated.. But to your defense, this solution has only been "out" for less than two months.
Atmos can in fact be decoded on both PC/Mac. Auro 3D works on mac currently, but a Win version is in the works.
It's not userfriendly. Only playback of files currently on Win, so the content needs to be ripped first. I always do that anyway. In addition, Mac can also play and decode streamed lossy content from like Apple Music, which Win can not.

But we can now play decoded Atmos and Auro3D in our computers, with all the benefits it gives. I'm all in..!

Have already posted the links here a couple of times. Like my daughters always answer me when I ask them something...dad, just google it..

Was that the discussion about using/subscribing to the Dolby tools? I don’t remember the Auro3D part. That was interesting, but I was thinking of native OS support (ie free, and/or designed for day-to-day and non-professional use). As I mentioned I’m not necessarily up-to-date on, nor would I search for, details on Windows features as I’m not a regular user.

 

[retro]

Was that the discussion about using/subscribing to the Dolby tools? I don’t remember the Auro3D part. That was interesting, but I was thinking of native OS support (ie free, and/or designed for day-to-day and non-professional use). As I mentioned I’m not necessarily up-to-date on, nor would I search for, details on Windows features as I’m not a regular user.

Yes, Dolby package needed. $400 as a one time purchase. If you want the Auro3D sauce as well, that's $20 a month. Expensive? This is the Trinnov thread, so I think not..
As for native free OS support, it will probably never happen. Dolby are not..well, they're Dolby..
So, this workaround is likely the only solution. And I'm sure it will improve over time.

BTW, Auro3D has now been released for Win as well.

 

[hollis]

$400 as a one time purchase.

My approach was looking at a $400-500 VST that can upmix to multiple formats. So I'd only be working with a Native 7.1 track, then using Auromatic to add heights.. Native Auro3d would be quite hard to find, so I'm looking at a world of upmixing either way.

Something like this:
https://www.perfectsurround.com/

We are getting into crazy subjective territory here, but some examples of native vs upmixed can be heard (and described) here:

 

[retro]

My approach was looking at a $400-500 VST that can upmix to multiple formats. So I'd only be working with a Native 7.1 track, then using Auromatic to add heights.. Native Auro3d would be quite hard to find, so I'm looking at a world of upmixing either way.

That Dolby package will get you native Atmos decoding on PC/Mac. Auro 3D inc. Auromatic is available as well on PC/Mac.

And Penteo is also interesting, but it doesn't decode anything. Will probably try it at some point..

 

[hollis]

native Atmos

I have read enough to be convinced to build out my new room as Auro 11.1 or 9.1 (minus the center ch). I am 90% music, so upmixing stereo audio is my #1 feature. Due to that, I dont actually have much use for native Atmos. I will definitely eBay one native Auro3d title or so as a test disk, but, mostly music for me.

 

[Andysu]

can trinnov do NR on some of those hiss and hum 4k movies i have noticed not going to say what movie it was , its a very popular one and it has magnetic hum and faint hiss on it .

 

[Fidji]

I have read enough to be convinced to build out my new room as Auro 11.1 or 9.1 (minus the center ch). I am 90% music, so upmixing stereo audio is my #1 feature. Due to that, I dont actually have much use for native Atmos. I will definitely eBay one native Auro3d title or so as a test disk, but, mostly music for me.

I also prefer Auro 3D as upmixer, anyway this format is unfortunately dead, along with other technically superior solutions, that were rolled over. I use it for all 5.1 content.
There is a way to have combined Atmos/Auro speaker set-up, it would be 7.x.4 or 7.x.6, without VoG, obviously. You just need to use height speakers and not in-ceiling. I know by myself, how today's "I am 90% music" changes to "I am 60% movies" in a snap ;-), so better to be versatile.

And with more and more native Atmos music content on its way, I think we will all need Atmos at some point.
My current test track is new Tears for Fears "Tipping Point", good 3D Mix.

 

[DonH56]

can trinnov do NR on some of those hiss and hum 4k movies i have noticed not going to say what movie it was , its a very popular one and it has magnetic hum and faint hiss on it .

Not that I am aware (I do not recall any special noise-reduction processing). I am not sure any AVP/AVR does that, might be an interesting feature.

 

[srrxr71]

Thats amazing, windows really needs to up their game.

With a 16ch sound card, I can only send to max 8 outputs.
View attachment 198166

If I use loopback into JRiver Media Center. I can take that source 7.1 and upmix to Auro3d via one of several VSTs, but each cost about $500. I have not tested how JRiver outputs height channels yet.

Let me know if you ever want to collaborate. My end goal is convolution based room eq on every ch, generated via Audiolens. Trinnov will have better speaker locating and remapping tech, but computer based room eq is the endgame of end game I think (and Mitch Barnett too)

The end game would probably involve getting a way to use the Trinnov microphone in acourate or audiolens. At least I guess “state or the art” because that would have to combine both techniques.

 

[songOVERsound]

Interestingly enough, the Trinnov does not have anything equivalent to Dirac Live Bass Control. It will measure each sub in your room and apply delays and filters as necessary, but it won't integrate them as a single source and phase align them with the mains like Dirac can do.

If this is still valid, and there is no fix in sight for Trinnov, could one utilize both systems without having them step on each other?

I know a lot of people use Trinnov into their Kii three speakers, so I don’t see why you couldn’t? It might be worth it, especially for using multiple subs

Kind of unacceptable given price points… but you can’t win them all

 

[Purité Audio]

Kii Three is one of the last speakers that would need the Trinnov,
Keith

 

[songOVERsound]

Kii Three is one of the last speakers that would need the Trinnov,

Maybe so… however, I know that many people do this. Possibly because they already had a Trinnov before getting Kii and liked the results. I know some people sold off their Trinnov’s and others kept it for a reason

 

[sarumbear]

Kii Three is one of the last speakers that would need the Trinnov,
Keith

Are you talking about Trinnov AVP or Trinnov audio processor?

 

[songOVERsound]

Are you talking about Trinnov AVP or Trinnov audio processor?

Either Trinnov DMON, MC, or ST2 for studio applications

 

[Purité Audio]

I was the first Trinnov U.K. retailer back then there was only one unit, then they introduced a multi channel unit which we also stocked, subsequently the more domestic audio orientated products followed.
Keith

 

[songOVERsound]

I was the first Trinnov U.K. retailer back then there was only one unit, then they introduced a multi channel unit which we also stocked, subsequently the more domestic audio orientated products followed.
Keith

Amongst with everything you’ve heard, would you say that Kii three w/ BXT is the most impressive?

 

[Purité Audio]

Just impossible to say, my experience for what it is worth is that the contemporary active designs ( and there still aren’t many) constant directivity, cardioid, full range built in peq etc etc
Just work better in every domestic and even partially treated room , they are just more transparent the better the measurements the more transparent, which is why I just don’t bother with traditional passive designs although some like KEF measure well.
Keith