Video Called "Hear Sound Loss in Speaker Cable"

[kongwee]

Where did you get that idea about smaller gauge for silver plated wire? Even with solid silver there is no real gauge advantage.

Belden cable. they have all the spec. Their 8333 series are smaller in gauge and can take 460V compare to copper. Physically is thinner than some USB cable. From line to power cable, RCA to IEC, no problem at all

 

[Mr. Widget]

Belden cable. they have all the spec. Their 8333 series are smaller in gauge and can take 460V compare to copper. Physically is thinner than some USB cable. From line to power cable, RCA to IEC, no problem at all

460V? The voltage is mostly unrelated to the gauge or conductor material... it has to do with the breakdown of the insulator. (The cable's jacket composition and thickness determines the cable's voltage.)

 

[ahofer]

The retailer told me that there is an audible difference from the silver-plated speaker cables, and that such A/B comparisons are performed for customers. Is it possible that it adds sibilance or causes more treble? Do you deny that such a difference can be reliably detected in a real blind test?

Yes

 

[Speedskater]

Belden 8333 is a 3 pair, tinned copper, shielded cable. With a 300 Volt rating.

 

[kongwee]

Belden 8333 is a 3 pair, tinned copper, shielded cable. With a 300 Volt rating.

I am talking about

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83332E

www.belden.com

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83333E

www.belden.com

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83319E

www.belden.com

 

[NTK]

I am talking about

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83332E

www.belden.com

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83333E

www.belden.com

Multi-Conductor Cable - 83319E

www.belden.com

These are high temperature control signal cables, and they cost about $10/ft in rolls of 100 ft. Why would anyone use them for audio signals that will be exposed to nothing hotter than room temperature? You know something the Belden engineers don't?

 

[kongwee]

These are high temperature control signal cables, and they cost about $10/ft in rolls of 100 ft. Why would anyone use them for audio signals that will be exposed to nothing hotter than room temperature? You know something the Belden engineers don't?

View attachment 245648

Why it couldn't be use as audio? I mean the same build in other brand gonna cost in hundreds selling as audio cable. It cost me less than a hundred fit with good connecter. Plus not being charged for workmanship in shop. And it is thinner than copper with the same power rating. High power rating, 85% shield, low inductance. It is a good deal.

 

[NTK]

Why it couldn't be use as audio? I mean the same build in other brand gonna cost in hundreds selling as audio cable. It cost me less than a hundred fit with good connecter. Plus not being charged for workmanship in shop. And it is thinner than copper with the same power rating. High power rating, 85% shield, low inductance. It is a good deal.

It is a US MILSPEC cable for use in harsh environmental conditions. It offers no benefits whatsoever for home audio use.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I did not look at the videos.

10 m of 12 AWG copper wire is about 50 m-ohms, so 100 m-ohms or 0.1 ohms for a speaker cable (two wires, + and -) ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Compared to no wire (direct to amp) using an 8-ohm speaker, the difference would be about 0.1 dB, right around the audible threshold of detection. It would be around 0.2 dB for 4-ohm speakers. So a good DBT should be able to detect the difference if you add 10 m of cable. In the real world you increase the volume 0.1 dB to compensate. The difference would be higher with smaller wire, of course.

Between silver and copper, I call B.S. Silver is a hair more conductive (~5% IIRC) but at that point it is a germ on a flea, not really relevant. And would not significantly affect the frequency response compared to copper. I have read copper is "warmer" and silver "colder" for decades and am convinced it is people hearing with their eyes.

IME/IMO - Don

Where and how do you calculate this? -You need to know the impedance of the driving amplifier as well to know the dB error.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Yes, its a fact that speaker cables can influence the FR of a amp-speaker system.But that silver sounds more brilliant than copper is not a fact.

Imagine if diamond cables were a thing. How shiny and clear the sound would be. Sparkling even.

It would be interesting to know if born blind audiophiles would hear the difference between silver "bright" and cobber "warm".

 

[Speedskater]

One of our forum members wrote this about silver plated wire and Teflon® insulation a long time ago:

Triboelectric. Silver and Teflon is a particularly bad combination.
******************************
Since I've experimentally observed tribo effects in PTFE-silver interconnects, I will have to respectfully disagree. The rubbing comes between the conductors and the insulators as the cable is stressed (in a mechanical sense).
******************************
PTFE and silver are also on the opposite ends of the triboelectric series. It's pretty easy to generate enough charge to create a significant transient voltage across high-ish impedances. This isn't DC, remember- if charges have a path to dissipate, they'll take it.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

One of our forum members wrote this about silver plated wire and Teflon® insulation a long time ago:

Triboelectric. Silver and Teflon is a particularly bad combination.
******************************
Since I've experimentally observed tribo effects in PTFE-silver interconnects, I will have to respectfully disagree. The rubbing comes between the conductors and the insulators as the cable is stressed (in a mechanical sense).
******************************
PTFE and silver are also on the opposite ends of the triboelectric series. It's pretty easy to generate enough charge to create a significant transient voltage across high-ish impedances. This isn't DC, remember- if charges have a path to dissipate, they'll take it.

Yeah, but static electricity is dependent of a mechanical force being applied; friction. I don't know of any sane person that rubs his speaker cable on a daily basis.

 

[DonH56]

Where and how do you calculate this? -You need to know the impedance of the driving amplifier as well to know the dB error.

View attachment 245651

The conditions were in my post; length and 8 ohms, amplifier output impedance not considered, just cable loss. I understood the claim was copper vs. silver. I have no desire to further debate this topic, beating a dead horse. I have several posts in the technical reference area on driving point impedance, speaker cables, and so forth for others who may be interested. I did not feel the need to go any deeper in this thread, other experts like yourself can fill the void.

 

[kongwee]

Where and how do you calculate this? -You need to know the impedance of the driving amplifier as well to know the dB error.

View attachment 245651

Why no capacitance input and resistance input? Impedance mean nothing if you dunno about these two value. I am very sure you can draw the exact FR unlike most of other cable brand out there. There are ASR member can do that.

It is a US MILSPEC cable for use in harsh environmental conditions. It offers no benefits whatsoever for home audio use.

View attachment 245650

It is cheaper than audiophile cable that cost more than 2 times with the similar spec. Why do I care it is mil spec or not? Under $100, I have no complain. 600V carry 4 amp may from 1hz up to few hundred kilo hertz. 2400watt. Slim. Can fit in RCA, XLR, IEC, spear, banana. And way over spec and CHEAP!

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Why no capacitance input and resistance input? Impedance mean nothing if you dunno about these two value. I am very sure you can draw the exact FR unlike most of other cable brand out there. There are ASR member can do that.

It is cheaper than audiophile cable that cost more than 2 times with the similar spec. Why do I care it is mil spec or not? Under $100, I have no complain. 600V carry 4 amp may from 1hz up to few hundred kilo hertz. 2400watt. Slim. Can fit in RCA, XLR, IEC, spear, banana. And way over spec and CHEAP!

Yes, 2400 W. At 600 V. What is the voltage and current at your systems max. transients is what's relevant.

To each their own I guess. I would definetely use a much thicker cable.

Edit: 60 W RMS at 4 ohms is 3,9 A and you are at your cables rated current limit and will have power lost in it together with deviations in the frequency response due to voltage loss. Of course if you don't ever drive your system at more than 20 W it's not a problem. There are dynamics in music though.

 

[killdozzer]

Yeah, but static electricity is dependent of a mechanical force being applied; friction. I don't know of any sane person that rubs his speaker cable on a daily basis.

Who's talking about sane?!

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Who's talking about sane?!

Yeah I guess if I kiss my amplifier good night it's kind of in the same ball park? Damn it! Borderline insane.

 

[NTK]

It is cheaper than audiophile cable that cost more than 2 times with the similar spec. Why do I care it is mil spec or not? Under $100, I have no complain. 600V carry 4 amp may from 1hz up to few hundred kilo hertz. 2400watt. Slim. Can fit in RCA, XLR, IEC, spear, banana. And way over spec and CHEAP!

Sure. Do what you want. Just don't think you can convince people here that it is any better or is a logical choice. I wonder if you buy reference standard grade sugar for baking your cookies too

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/product/sial/phr1001

 

[Speedskater]

Yeah, but static electricity is dependent of a mechanical force being applied; friction. I don't know of any sane person that rubs his speaker cable on a daily basis.

Wait, what about all those audiophiles with cable risers?
(even if cable vibration and static electricity aren't problems) (mic & musical instrument cables excepted)

 

[sq225917]

Rushes of to plug in his HGA silver in teflon IC's and give them a vicious rubbing with my Pre set to max volume to see if I can 'rustle up' any noise.


Nope, sweet f-ck all, another one bites the dust.