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Video Called "Hear Sound Loss in Speaker Cable"

Audiofire

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HiFi Klubben is a retailer that is located in some European countries. They have marketing about why they choose to sell the expensive audio cables from Argon Audio and Audioquest. Here is an article about that they think one can hear an improvement from the expensive speaker cables. But the difference here is that they link to a video with some experiment:

These are the videos that are linked to in their marketing. I couldn't follow the convoluted doings of the man in the videos. Is it just audiophile BS that has no relevance for a speaker cable that is up to about 10 meters long or what is going on?

Hear Sound Loss in Speaker Cable - Parts 1 to 4

 
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tomtoo

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Did not see the videos. Its Dave Rat, and he not talks audiophile BS. Usually he talks about huge PA systems with cable runs in hundert of meters. But I look the videos latet
 
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Audiofire

Audiofire

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The retailer told me that there is an audible difference from the silver-plated speaker cables, and that such A/B comparisons are performed for customers. Is it possible that it adds sibilance or causes more treble? Do you deny that such a difference can be reliably detected in a real blind test?
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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The retailer told me that there is an audible difference from the silver-plated speaker cables, and that such A/B comparisons are performed for customers. Is it possible that it adds sibilance or causes more treble? Do you deny that such a difference can be reliably detected in a real blind test?

I'd need to see it to believe it. Basically, I'd need to be in the room with them while they did the test. In other words...no, I don't believe it. Assuming of course we're talking about an in home system with normal cable runs and what not.
 

JSmith

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JSmith
 

DonH56

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I did not look at the videos.

10 m of 12 AWG copper wire is about 50 m-ohms, so 100 m-ohms or 0.1 ohms for a speaker cable (two wires, + and -) ref https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Compared to no wire (direct to amp) using an 8-ohm speaker, the difference would be about 0.1 dB, right around the audible threshold of detection. It would be around 0.2 dB for 4-ohm speakers. So a good DBT should be able to detect the difference if you add 10 m of cable. In the real world you increase the volume 0.1 dB to compensate. The difference would be higher with smaller wire, of course.

Between silver and copper, I call B.S. Silver is a hair more conductive (~5% IIRC) but at that point it is a germ on a flea, not really relevant. And would not significantly affect the frequency response compared to copper. I have read copper is "warmer" and silver "colder" for decades and am convinced it is people hearing with their eyes.

IME/IMO - Don
 

Somafunk

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I have read copper is "warmer" and silver "colder" for decades and am convinced it is people hearing with their eyes.

Spend 5 mins on the aftermarket silver vs copper vs graphene cable thread on headfi and you’ll read that description over and over again with flowery descriptions of how a cable sounds, often contradicting themselves as they attempt to describe nuances in speed of delivery, attack, decay, tonal balance and don’t forget the 200hrs of burn in before it comes alive :facepalm:
 
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Sgt. Ear Ache

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Spend 5 mins on the aftermarket cable thread on headfi and you’ll read that description over and over again with flowery descriptions of how a cable sounds, often contradicting themselves as they attempt to describe nuances in speed of delivery, attack, decay, tonal balance and don’t forget the 200hrs of burn in before it comes alive :facepalm:

lol...yeah I well remember the burn in lunacy over there. "These $20 ear buds only fully reach their sonic potential after 175 hours of burn in. Until that point I was like meh...these sound like crud. But at 175 hours...whoooo DADDY they came alive!" :D
 

DonH56

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Spend 5 mins on the aftermarket cable thread on headfi and you’ll read that description over and over again with flowery descriptions of how a cable sounds, often contradicting themselves as they attempt to describe nuances in speed of delivery, attack, decay, tonal balance and don’t forget the 200hrs of burn in before it comes alive :facepalm:
I have better ways to spend five minutes, thanks... :)

Burn-in, I always wondered if the glass of wine (or Scotch) at hour 199 had something to do with it...

I've watched 3 minutes of the last one. The lesson I extract: don't arrange your speaker cables as if you were going to build an inductor and introduce a moving magnet inside.
Another concept vastly overstated with little relevance in the real world except in very special circumstances. The wires are in pairs so couple locally, not like a single wire making a transformer or coil. But it is audio, where everyone can hear fV (10^-15 V) of noise, distinguish ps (10^-12 s) in time, and hear a dynamic range exceeded only by beings from Krypton.
 

Somafunk

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I don’t bother attempting to persuade otherwise anymore - live & let live if it brings them a bit of pleasure, on the chord mojo 2 thread this was stated…….

”After having the Mojo 2 in the house for two months, I think it finally got used enough to finish running in. Over the course of two days the bass gained texture and control, and the highs became much more extended.”

It was pointed out that Rob Watts himself posted up that burn in not an issue but he (it’s always a he, woman have more sense) still claims it made a difference.

I just give them a figurative pat on the head and move on.
 

tomtoo

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The retailer told me that there is an audible difference from the silver-plated speaker cables, and that such A/B comparisons are performed for customers. Is it possible that it adds sibilance or causes more treble? Do you deny that such a difference can be reliably detected in a real blind test?

Strange questions, why i should deny that silver plating could have some influence on cable impedance? Could it be hearable? Depends on many parameters. Cable run, amp damping factor, speaker impedance.
I just would say using higher gauge copper cable instead silver plated has the same imfluences and is cheaper. Lets say we talk about <15m runs, 4mm^2 area, modern transistor amps and normal dynamic speakers, i would say you wont hear it.
 
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Audiofire

Audiofire

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Isn't the marketing from HiFi Klubben that links to the video just an epitome of this quotation?!
"It does help if the 'reviewer' also throws in some facts - they can be random, and don't need to explain anything directly. Inference is far better, because that gives them 'plausible deniability' should they be questioned later."
 
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tomtoo

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Isn't the marketing from HiFi Klubben that links to the video just an epitome of this quotation?!
"It does help if the 'reviewer' also throws in some facts - they can be random, and don't need to explain anything directly. Inference is far better, because that gives them 'plausible deniability' should they be questioned later."

Thats how its often done, Dave Rat talks about real live for PA sound people. And coiling up 30m of 2.5mm^2. Thats not your typical hifi usage. And than that influences get shiftet to reallive hifi. Iam sure he does not know that his videos get used to sell silver plated "high-end" cable.
 

tomtoo

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But it's an impurity and must be banished, banished I say. ;)

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JSmith

Yes, its a fact that speaker cables can influence the FR of a amp-speaker system.But that silver sounds more brilliant than copper is not a fact. ;)
 

bo_knows

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Yes, its a fact that speaker cables can influence the FR of a amp-speaker system.But that silver sounds more brilliant than copper is not a fact. ;)
"Yes, its a fact that speaker cables can influence the FR of a amp-speaker system."

How many dB speaker cables can influence/change FR?

I'll show you a real problem in my room that keeps me awake at night. ;)

How about multiple15-20 dB dips in FR at my MLP?

To make things worse, I have so many room treatments that I don't know where to put the new ones to deal with these issues.

Should I worry about silver vs copper cable at this point?

Of course, I one is using the headphones, he/she will not have this problem. :)

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tomtoo

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"Yes, its a fact that speaker cables can influence the FR of a amp-speaker system."

How many dB speaker cables can influence/change FR?

I'll show you a real problem in my room that keeps me awake at night. ;)

How about multiple15-20 dB dips in FR at my MLP?

To make things worse, I have so many room treatments that I don't know where to put the new ones to deal with these issues.

Should I worry about silver vs copper cable at this point?

View attachment 214412

No, what ever it is, not the cable. Looks more than something highly reflective in the room?


A cable can act as a filter with low q. This deep dips look more like interferences. But iam realy no expert for this, i would open a thread. I am sure in here are people with much more knowledge about this.
 
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bo_knows

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No, what ever it is, not the cable. Looks more than something highly reflective in the room?
Like room modes? LOL.

Of course, is not the cable. I showed you this to make my point.

Unless one is using the headphones, there will be many more severe issues in the frequency response caused by the room and room acoustic than cables, amplifiers, speakers, tube connectors and etc.
 
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