Vera Audio P400/1000 Review (Amplifier)

[Spocko]

Already SOLD OUT?!
@Bjorn Was it always sold out or was this just after the ASR review (posted only 72 hours ago)?
This is the webstore for US buyers

 

[amirm]

I went there to get pricing at review and didn't see the sold out sign. So demand must have increased.

 

[PeteL]

You are somewhere correct when you most recording normalised 1 bit 0dbFS. They put a limiter in their mix or master. You can see it hit 0dB at some point and can't really tell the different. But that is another big topic. Just for playback if you can actually control the volume digitally, it is best to lower it down a bit. I don't use DIRAC, but I do some DAW and have to look at my audio interface mix level.

Of course these is a volume loss from the DAC output, many argue that resolution loss due lower bit rate. At least in my audio interface, if I have to achieve 0DB to minimum bit rate loss, I will gain some distortion. In my audio interface screen, I have -6db in software control and -12 dB at monitoring . -6db at software control, I don't get to see red. -12 db monitoring to have lesser gain so that I have better volume control range at my audio interface physical volume control knob to my studio monitor. When I see red in metering, I assume it already distorted even I can't prove it.

Ok, but it’´s a general discussion about gain structure, I feel it’s for an other place than this review thread. I don’t disagree, Just keep in mind that a dB is always a dB against a reference, your use of the dB unit by itself makes it that we would need more info about your specifics to really comment. « not seeing red » is not how people use the equipment being reviewed here, looks like you are talking about some professional. monitoring use case, which generally speaking I am also at ease with, but too large of a subject, that would belong to a new thread.

 

[mocenigo]

Of note is that 16 out of 20 blue "excellent" amplifiers in terms of SINAD, are either Hypex or Purifi (Bruno P) based. The 4 within this category that are not are the Benchmark AB, Topping PA5, Neurochrome Modulus, and SMS VMV. Just interesting is all.

True but that means that there are less than ten options: NC400, NC500 with similar buffers, NC1200, NC252MP, Purifi 1ET400A, Benchmark AB, Topping PA5, Neurochrome Modulus, and SMS VMV. One could stretch this a bit more and conclude that these are just six different things.

 

[Spocko]

I went there to get pricing at review and didn't see the sold out sign. So demand must have increased.

People appreciate value when it comes to well engineered products!

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Any reason to prefer these over the more refined BoXem builds from Luxembourg, in particular their Purifi based ARTHUR 4215/E2 (?) I assume that one could be the even smarter choice.

 

[amirm]

Any reason to prefer these over the more refined BoXem builds from Luxembourg, in particular their Purifi based ARTHUR 4215/E2 (?) I assume that one could be the even smarter choice.

These are far more powerful than Purifi.

 

[Bjorn]

Something that we would like to comment about the review is the difference between channel 1 and 2. One channel achieved a SINAD of 104dB and the other 101dB. A difference of 3dB. We also see in particular the "4 Ohm Power Versus Distortion" graph they deviate quite a bit.

In our measurements, we didn't see such a difference. Both measured with a SINAD of 105dB and they followed each more closely as seen below.

While the difference isn't considered audible, it's still something we are not 100% pleased with. We are very much prefectionists at what we do.

When the unit comes back to Norway, it's something we will looker closer at. It is possible that a non optimal connection could have caused this. But this is speculation and something we won't know before we have measured the unit again.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Amir: Among the best amps we ever measured.
Vera Audio: We're not happy.

Love the dedication!

 

[Spocko]

Something that we would like to comment about the review is the difference between channel 1 and 2. One channel achieved a SINAD of 104dB and the other 101dB. A difference of 3dB. We also see in particular the "4 Ohm Power Versus Distortion" graph they deviate quite a bit.

In our measurements, we didn't see such a difference. Both measured with a SINAD of 105dB and they followed each more closely as seen below.
View attachment 182342


While the difference isn't considered audible, it's still something we are not 100% pleased with. We are very much perfectionists at what we do. [emphasis added]

Since we're talking perfection here, what are your thoughts on the crosstalk measurements - Is this consistent with your expectations? Could you improve crosstalk measurements without compromising something else (like raising the price)?

 

[Armand]

Since we're talking perfection here, what are your thoughts on the crosstalk measurements - Is this consistent with your expectations? Could you improve crosstalk measurements without compromising something else (like raising the price)?

I digged out some measurements of this from earlier and the crosstalk looks correct.
Crosstalk can have many sources. It can be the high voltage power supply, it can be the low voltage power supply, it can be from the speaker cables inside the cabinet radiating electromagnetic fields or it can be on the PCB's.
Care has been taken to minimize all these sources. We did tests with different regulators and found improvements there. It did however come to a stop since the main source for the crosstalk in the amplifier is the input PCB.
On post 71 (page 4) you can see the input buffer PCB that holds both channels. The total length of the PCB is 10cm (4 inches) and with both left and right signal present on such small space it is difficult to separate the channels completely.
On amplifiers like the AHB2 where the right and left channel are physically more separated crosstalk is better.

We would of course like to have this as low as possible, but 92dB @ 1kHz is well below audibility so we did not pursue the matter further as this would involve re-designing the input buffer completely. The way it is now we can keep all switches and audio circuitry on one small PCB with the added benefits that have.
And if that still is not good enough there is always the option of buying two amplifiers and bridge them. You cannot ask for more channel separation than that !!

Audibility of crosstalk is discussed here:

Crosstalk/Channel Separation. How much is good enough?

How much Crosstalk would be good enough for DAC/Preamp/AMP?

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Spocko]

@Bjorn and @Armand any ETA when you'll have the P400 (black) back in stock and available for shipment to USA?

 

[Bjorn]

@Bjorn and @Armand any ETA when you'll have the P400 (black) back in stock and available for shipment to USA?

It looks like we will have one avaiable within next week. After that, I'm afraid it will take about 8 weeks before we'll have more in stock due to late delivery of parts in the market.
I can reserve the unit for you.

 

[Spocko]

It looks like we will have one avaiable within next week. After that, I'm afraid it will take about 8 weeks before we'll have more in stock due to late delivery of parts in the market.
I can reserve the unit for you.

DM'd!

 

[Anton S]

This appears to be pure Unobtainium.

 

[Bjorn]

This appears to be pure Unobtainium.

Apologies. When the unit was shipped to the review we had a good number in stock. But we sold more than anticipated in this period and several parts have been delayed. We expect to have units in stock again in 7-8 weeks. The P150/600 RS power amplifier is presently available though.

 

[Anton S]

Apologies. When the unit was shipped to the review we had a good number in stock. But we sold more than anticipated in this period and several parts have been delayed. We expect to have units in stock again in 7-8 weeks. The P150/600 RS power amplifier is presently available though.

Thank you. Off topic, my all-time favorite tennis player shares your first name. In addition to being a top-ranked player, Borg was nearly always complete gentleman on the court. We used to call him the Angelic Assassin.

 

[DanielT]

Thank you. Off topic, my all-time favorite tennis player shares your first name. In addition to being a top-ranked player, Borg was nearly always complete gentleman on the court. We used to call him the Angelic Assassin.

Then I continue on the OT track.

Hm, angelic. Add dust and I can agree..That man was a fucking party animal. More than a tornado from hell. A wild on the girls. Tried to put on my then girlfriend (she was not a photo model but she was a woman..BB took them all if he got the opportunity)

Well known by those who partyed in Stockholm at that time. He even did a song with some other celebrities in Sweden, even those at the time party animals. Here's the story of it:

"The band consisted of friends Dr Alban, Tomas Brolin, Björn Borg, and Mattias Frisk. In the music video, the group members partyed in a limousine. There were dozens of hot bikinis. dressed blondes and the atmosphere was sinfully sexy.

The depiction is close to the real life of the stars at that time, it went incredibly wild. It was important to hold on to his wife when Brolin & Co were out partying, women got horny from their mere presence. ".... (hell not, I do not agree with that, some girls maybe)

"Two of the band members also deepened their friendship. Namely, they have enjoyed a voluptuous ménage à trois together, ie a form of group sex where three people participate.

It started with Björn Borg sitting at Tomas Brolin's house and partying. They listened to their own song "Alla vi" on repeat and drank vodka straight from the bottle. Then the irresistible sexy woman Camilla Henemark fell in wearing a sealskin.

Tomas and Björn stripped for the singer and in the middle of the number, Tomas' girlfriend came home unexpectedly. She was so upset that she threw them all out."

Brolins heta sexnatt med Björn Borg | Stoppa Pressarna

1999 släpptes sommardängan “Alla vi” med popgruppen “Friends in need”.

stoppapressarna.se

Watch here and you will understand, here is the song, the video. The song itself is useless, lousy as a song considered but well Björn Borg is in it ...
I can easily forgive BB for trying to fuck my then girlfriend on the toilet at the popular nightclub in Stockholm, but I can not forgive him for that song. Have hardly heard any worse shit. Warning before listening to it. It is total rubbish:
(sexy girls in bikinis do , of course, appear in it)

In short, a really fun guy, quite simply

Edit:
It's no secret, everyone in Sweden knows this.Jannike, Björn Borg's now ex-wife:
"Cocaine was completely normal"

"Kokain var helt normalt"

Från Stureplans vip-rum och skandaler till friskluft och välling. Nu berättar Jannike Björling, 40, exklusivt för Expressen, om mammalyckan, vändpunkten och den nya mannen i hennes liv. - För oss rastlösa tar det längre tid att finna ro, säger hon.

www.expressen.se

I add that I personally do not know BB and I have never used drugs. A lot of beer was, however, when I swung my furry legs at the time. Nowadays I mostly think about whether I should, for example, change the capacitors in the passive crossover in my vintage Kef speakers. A bit quieter electronics party so to speak.

 

[Anton S]

Oh, my! Sorry to hear your former girlfriend had a bitter experience with Borg. Or at least I presume she was not pleased. Borg's wife may have indulged in cocaine, but I doubt that he did. I could be wrong and often am, but I have a difficult time believing that Bjorn would risk his professional career by failing a drug test. As for the song, meh!

 

[DanielT]

There was no danger with that. He just flirted with her, hoping for more action
(filthy suggestions). Normal behavior on a nightclub. But he flirted with all the girls.
Like I said, a fun guy,... not ironically written.

Edit:
Cocaine after active tennis career:

"In a TV interview with Jan Guillou two years later, however, it sounded different, when Björn Borg admitted that he had taken cocaine."

Den siste stjärnan – Café djupdyker i fenomenet Björn Borg | Cafe.se

Från garageporten i Södertälje till femfaldig Wimbledonmästare. I år är det 40 år sedan Björn Borg lade racketen på hyllan, men det är först nu när han når den respektabla åldern 65 som han kan kalla…

www.cafe.se

So, enough about BB. Back to Vera Audio P400 / 1000.