Understanding the Appeal of Cheap Class A/B Amplifiers: Your Thoughts?

[Fosi Audio]

Fosi Audio has always been committed to thoroughly understanding our user's needs and crafting our products based on those requirements. Currently, our primary focus in the amplifier sector is class-d amplifiers. However, we are well aware that class a/b amplifiers continue to maintain a strong fan base. In fact, many audiophiles prefer analog amplifiers, especially those produced by traditional, established manufacturers.

We notice that class a/b amplifiers priced under $100 are selling exceptionally well on Amazon. While we believe that these amplifiers may not deliver the best quality, they undeniably cater to certain needs of consumers. As an audio company, we are driven to diversify our product line to meet the demands of different customer groups.

In the past, we have produced a few similar models of class a/b amplifiers. However, after careful evaluation—particularly considering the quality control did not meet our own standards—we decided to put the development of these products on hold.

In light of this, we are seeking your opinions on budget class a/b amplifiers priced under $100. We hope that your ideas and suggestions can contribute to our future product development efforts.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?
2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?

 

[Jeromeof]

I would say the following:
1. A first time buyer who doesn't really understand what they are buying so thinks buying something that 'covers' all the options they might need at the cheapest price- they are buying these because of the all the buttons and connections
2. I can imagine someone looking at these products thinks they are buying something with lots of options so won't need to buy something else

The reality is I imagine after they receive one of these they will hardly use it and probably ends up with a bad opinion of the sound quality that a 'cheap' amplifier can provide.

 

[TonyJZX]

ooof this question... i appreciate them asking this tbh

These are class a/b amps right?

I assume basically what Fosi is asking is what kind of individual would buy these kind of cheap amps... eg. whenever i cruise amazon ebay etc for junky amps I always come across Pyle or Technical Pro cheapo sub $200 boxes... they look flashy, they have heaps of knobs and they claim "1,000w" and they have carry handles etc.

I'm going to be honest... they are "white van" amps built for... absolute morons.

This is the complete anthesis of the avg. ASR person.

I'm with Fosi in that I appreciate an item that is priced well but performs a limited number of tasks very well with a minimum of flash (I make an exception for stuff like McIntosh!)

This is opposite to a "Pyle". Someone like Matt Taylor sums it up as a "Mug's Eyeful"... as in the product is flashy and looks good at a distance but close up is actually terrible.

eg.

I would hope Fosi does not go down the path of a "Pyle".

 

[ZolaIII]

Build quality, repairability, refined and perfected design, good or very good performance, other integrated futures which are very useful. I ain't talking about cheap class A-B or G power or Pro amplifiers but good and affordable one's like Yamaha home lines and older P line, older Crowns or current DSP equped Dynacord's (Pro lines).
If Dynacord can make 220~500W A-B or G class amp in Germany with more than deacent parts including very good condensers, triodal transformer and such (build to last) with Ti ADC - DSP - DAC which performs good and with good warenty for 600~1000 € sorry you failed.

 

[sarumbear]

Fosi Audio has always been committed to thoroughly understanding our user's needs and crafting our products based on those requirements. Currently, our primary focus in the amplifier sector is class-d amplifiers. However, we are well aware that analog amplifiers continue to maintain a strong fan base. In fact, many audiophiles prefer analog amplifiers, especially those produced by traditional, established manufacturers.

We notice that analog amplifiers priced under $100 are selling exceptionally well on Amazon. While we believe that these amplifiers may not deliver the best quality, they undeniably cater to certain needs of consumers. As an audio company, we are driven to diversify our product line to meet the demands of different customer groups.

In the past, we have produced a few similar models of analog amplifiers. However, after careful evaluation—particularly considering the quality control did not meet our own standards—we decided to put the development of these products on hold.

In light of this, we are seeking your opinions on budget analog amplifiers priced under $100. We hope that your ideas and suggestions can contribute to our future product development efforts.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of analog amplifiers?
2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost analog amplifiers appeal to their users?
View attachment 298636

I have never seen these types of amplifiers on stores in the UK, nor I know of anyone who has one.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

As a young teenager, I'd earned some holiday money and wanted to buy a "HiFi" that looked like everyone else's (I had a bunch of bits of electronics wired together at time, such as a salvaged mono valve amp). These came in wooden racks with a turntable at the top and units below.

I hadn't earned a lot and don't come from a family where there was much spare money. When I looked into what products I could afford that looked like everyone else's HiFi, they had all the correct features, buttons meters and knobs, but were actually a single box in a rack faked to look like separates. The salesman explained that this saved money by not wasting it on multiple boxes. But I could see it was awful quality with loose controls and a terrible sound. I realised I didn't have enough money to buy a quality system with lots of buttons, features and meters, so saved up more and bought very simple separates instead.

 

[JSmith]

Class of amp design isn't relevant... what is relevant is low distortion, low noise, flat frequency response in the audible band and available power.

Also, "digital amp" is a bit of a misnomer in this case.


JSmith

 

[BeerBear]

If we're talking about those flashy amps with blue lights, I doubt it has anything to do with them being class AB instead of class D. I think it's more of an aesthetic preference, and more connections, more everything, bigger size...
The colorful LED lights look apparently works for some demographics. Look at the gaming PC market, for example.

 

[Fosi Audio]

ooof this question... i appreciate them asking this tbh

These are class a/b amps right?

I assume basically what Fosi is asking is what kind of individual would buy these kind of cheap amps... eg. whenever i cruise amazon ebay etc for junky amps I always come across Pyle or Technical Pro cheapo sub $200 boxes... they look flashy, they have heaps of knobs and they claim "1,000w" and they have carry handles etc.

I'm going to be honest... they are "white van" amps built for... absolute morons.

This is the complete anthesis of the avg. ASR person.

I'm with Fosi in that I appreciate an item that is priced well but performs a limited number of tasks very well with a minimum of flash (I make an exception for stuff like McIntosh!)

This is opposite to a "Pyle". Someone like Matt Taylor sums it up as a "Mug's Eyeful"... as in the product is flashy and looks good at a distance but close up is actually terrible.

eg.

I would hope Fosi does not go down the path of a "Pyle".

It seems these class a/b amps are not for audiophiles at all. However, there are still many people keeping buying them. Probably mainly because of the numerous functions and connectivities? Like Karaoke, FM radio, SD card, Bluetooth, etc.

 

[Petevid]

Yes I bet purchasers of these amps generally don’t appreciate the difference between Class A/B and Class D. They buy them based on price, bells and whistles and looks.

 

[TonyJZX]

It seems these class a/b amps are not for audiophiles at all. However, there are still many people keeping buying them. Probably mainly because of the numerous functions and connectivities? Like Karaoke, FM radio, SD card, Bluetooth, etc.

in the end the goal is to make money

if you can appeal to this market and be profitable then who cares?

but the products are very low end stuff for an unsophisticated audience

these products are completely opposite to the V3... to the above audience they will not see the appeal of a V3 as it "does not do much"

to us i mean its clear we dont care about karaoke, we dont use radio not do we care too much about usb stick and sd card support

Bluetooth has its uses....

 

[Waxx]

those integrated like the ones from Yamaha, Denon, Nad and Marantz are popular because they are clear and simple to use, reliable and in general sound good. Amp class is not really an issue for most of the users of those. It's more the more knowledgable that look at that.

Class A and tubes are very coloured in general, and appeals to a certain niche of people. Often snake oil is part of the reason, but certainly not always, it's also the high harmonic distortion that makes the sound easier to the ear.

The other side is the class D fans, that want neutral low distortion, but many think they are cold harsh sounding. Newer class D amps don't have that anymore and so are more appealing.

Class AB amps are in general in the middle of those two camps, they sound clean to most, but still warm. That is where Marantz certainly got's its reputation from. Others are less chosen for that, more for the convenience. But now NAD sells class D with that kind of convenience, and sells as much.

You also got a lot of noobs that heared class AB is best but have no clue at all, if you want that market, just make something looking modern but in class AB and make a lot of noise about it in that circles.

 

[tmtomh]

Fosi Audio has always been committed to thoroughly understanding our user's needs and crafting our products based on those requirements. Currently, our primary focus in the amplifier sector is class-d amplifiers. However, we are well aware that class a/b amplifiers continue to maintain a strong fan base. In fact, many audiophiles prefer analog amplifiers, especially those produced by traditional, established manufacturers.

We notice that class a/b amplifiers priced under $100 are selling exceptionally well on Amazon. While we believe that these amplifiers may not deliver the best quality, they undeniably cater to certain needs of consumers. As an audio company, we are driven to diversify our product line to meet the demands of different customer groups.

In the past, we have produced a few similar models of class a/b amplifiers. However, after careful evaluation—particularly considering the quality control did not meet our own standards—we decided to put the development of these products on hold.

In light of this, we are seeking your opinions on budget class a/b amplifiers priced under $100. We hope that your ideas and suggestions can contribute to our future product development efforts.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?
2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?
View attachment 298636

Wow - I think it's so cool that you have been this open and detailed about your company's thinking, and that you are asking us for our perspective. Thank you!

As others have noted, I think there are three main factors to consider:

1. Fears about, and distaste for, Class D: Some - but only some - buyers feel more comfortable with A/B because they have heard bad things about Class D (partially true about some older designs I suppose, but generally not true anymore).
2. Desire for familiarity: Some buyers want a familiar-looking, 17" wide amplifier that looks like a conventional stereo component and has familiar front controls and rear ports (with the addition of digital inputs probably, and perhaps Bluetooth). They are replacing older gear and want to be able to simply "drop in" the new amp to the rest of their system with no configuration changes. These buyers probably don't want an external power brick, and they don't want controls, displays, etc that deviate a lot from what the major mainstream hi-fi brands provide on their amps and receivers. Of course, there is no reason such a unit can't be powered with Class D amplification on the inside. It's just that traditionally these have been A/B units and so that's what folks expect, consciously or not.
3. Brand trust: I think this might be an underrated and important factor when it comes to A/B amps, as @Waxx has noted just above. It's not just the form factor, controls, and ports on the amps - it's also that some buyers trust established brands like the ones Waxx has mentioned. And so that brand name is part of what they're looking to see on the front panel.

I have absolutely no professional credentials in audio or in marketing, and I am sure that each of the above items applies to only a portion of the customer base. But with that said, my guess is that a Fosi Class A/B amp product probably would be most successful if you avoided trying to compete in the full-size, 17" wide component market and instead made a small form-factor A/B amp marketed to buyers who specifically want an A/B option for desktop setups, secondary setups, or just small form-factor setups. That would probably mean moderate power (something like 60wpc into 4 ohms at 1% THD) to provide good power without a ton of heat, and probably a metal or partially metal case to convey good build quality. I would think such an offering would benefit from coming in two versions, one with built-in DAC and Bluetooth, the other all-analogue.

This is just my $.02 based on observation. I could be completely wrong of course!

 

[TonyJZX]

to me it seems like its much harder to make a decent class a/b with sufficient power

we see that Fosi can make a class D that has up to 90w for about $120

i doubt even fosi can make a class A/B of even 70w for the same money with similar charts

to me you can forget about these silly Pyle Technical Pro type amps

but would the market even want a plain poweramp w/ vol ctrl class a/b amp? i mean i welcome it

i'm back to using my class a/b because that's what i like

 

[Waxx]

to me it seems like its much harder to make a decent class a/b with sufficient power

we see that Fosi can make a class D that has up to 90w for about $120

i doubt even fosi can make a class A/B of even 70w for the same money with similar charts

to me you can forget about these silly Pyle Technical Pro type amps

but would the market even want a plain poweramp w/ vol ctrl class a/b amp? i mean i welcome it

i'm back to using my class a/b because that's what i like

There were enough LM3886 amp boards arround before covid that measure relative clean, sound good and cost way less than 100€ in the diy world. Even now, that that chip became hard to find (and so expensive), it's still doable to find boards like that. A company can buy the parts of it way cheaper than we can, so i guess you can make a gainclone type of amp with it for less than 100€ when working on insdustrial scale. The name gainclone is protected, but not the circuit. And other class AB amp chips can and are used for the same kind of amps. Discrete class AB will be harder altough.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

In the '70s there were a lot of all in one systems--tuner, amp, turntable, speakers. The turntable was integrated with the "receiver" in a single box. The speakers generally had wood veneer. They were a fancy looking record player. There's a market for things that look OK and don't cost much. It all depends on what people want to spend money on.

 

[potfur]

These devices probably appear to buyers and their peers as simulacra, i.e. imitations, of much more expensive equipment. From a certain distance, they look respectable (lots of controls, blue LEDs), and it is only on closer examination that they come across as what they really are, i.e. cheap tat. This is in complete opposition to your minimalist V3 amplifier, which, paradoxically, although it offers much better sound with 99.9% probability, looks "cheaper" in the eyes of these customers, as it is very small, has just one knob and one small LED. To this demographic, the multitude of knobs, inputs, outputs, indicators and what not, is a value of and in itself even if the sound is crap.

I think it might be pretty difficult to reconcile selling to this group with selling to those (let's call them ASR readers for simplicity) that care more for measurable performance than for outward appearance. Within a set budget, ASR readers might prefer a device where bulk of the manufacturer's cost is spent on making the device reproduce music faithfully, while buyers of these Amazon miracles have different priorities as described above. I'd personally rather you go the V3 way than trying to emulate these cheap A/B amps with tons of bling and very suspect technical specs.

 

[Joe Smith]

A class AB amp similar to the old but very reliable Yamaha M-35 is still of value. I have two of those in my current rotation w/ my various house systems. They are simple, unassuming, relatively powerful, still perform well, have a protection circuit and separate volume pots for each channel. They were designed to work for either 2 channel or 4 channel mode and I think a lot of people used them for surround systems. Ones similar to the M-35 are still made today, but no doubt with lesser grade components.

The width and black finish does make it pair nicely with tape decks, CD players, etc.

It might be of more value/consumer appear for Fosi to make a wider Class D amp a little more powerful than the V3 (similar to the new Topping one, but without the rack ears) and a matching preamplifier (similar to the Schiit Saga S). I think a nice amp and preamp pairing in the classic width form factor would do well. If this combo was available for say
$400, it would be potentially competitive with a lot of products out there now...

 

[TonyJZX]

the V3 does ~85w on the big psu... just say we relax those requirements for class a/b

say we accept a 70w amp... is this realistically possible at even $150? w/ just an rca pair in and a vol. knob?

and the 48v 5a psu? I dont think it is?

and would the market accept it? they should right? amp is an amp right?

i'd personally go more with an integrated w/ remote but I would always accept a power amp because i dont mind

 

[JeffS7444]

Fosi Audio has always been committed to thoroughly understanding our user's needs and crafting our products based on those requirements. Currently, our primary focus in the amplifier sector is class-d amplifiers. However, we are well aware that class a/b amplifiers continue to maintain a strong fan base. In fact, many audiophiles prefer analog amplifiers, especially those produced by traditional, established manufacturers.

We notice that class a/b amplifiers priced under $100 are selling exceptionally well on Amazon. While we believe that these amplifiers may not deliver the best quality, they undeniably cater to certain needs of consumers. As an audio company, we are driven to diversify our product line to meet the demands of different customer groups.

In the past, we have produced a few similar models of class a/b amplifiers. However, after careful evaluation—particularly considering the quality control did not meet our own standards—we decided to put the development of these products on hold.

In light of this, we are seeking your opinions on budget class a/b amplifiers priced under $100. We hope that your ideas and suggestions can contribute to our future product development efforts.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?
2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?
View attachment 298636

Microphone input = Karaoke! Not as common in USA as in Asia. In Japan, not uncommon for tourist motor coaches to be equipped for karaoke.