Understanding the Appeal of Cheap Class A/B Amplifiers: Your Thoughts?

[JayGilb]

Nice starter amps for someone trying to make a system on the cheap. Most people outside of ASR probably don't understand amp class types nor do they want to learn.
Nothing wrong with a low cost class AB as long as they don't look like a Pyle of ...

 

[TonyJZX]

just what i came across

SUNBUCK AV power amplifier 2.0 Channel Audio Home Theater Amplifiers DC 12V 110V/220V Support EQ FM SD USB 2 Mic 5.0 bluetooth - AliExpress 44

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

this is an example of a these disposable idiot amps

but how the hell are they doing this for less than $20 delivered...

AND it has a remote and screen and heaps of knobs AND radio and bt5.0

 

[jaatre]

Here is my opinion on the future of Class AB amps:

1. There is a huge market to capture with Class D amps which are new to a whole bunch of 'audiophiles'. With better focus on affordable amps that can compete with the likes of Hypex and Purifi, $$$ can be made. Popular brands too are moving from Class AB to D.

2. With newer technologies being introduced to speaker drivers (like Textreme used by SB and Eminence), transparency in speakers will increase, which will mostly encourage folks to get either Class A (to get a relaxing sound) or Class D (with best measurements to avoid hiss and distortions). Class AB will not have a place there.

3. Compactness and efficiency of Class D amps not only make them better suited for desktop and integrated amps, but will also see their way into lifestyle products with speakers built into them. Any cheap TI chip works fine there.

All that said, the folks who buy those amps mentioned in your post are mostly new to the field or just want something cheap with all the 'features' even if many of them are useless.

@Fosi Audio : You are slowly setting a standard for decent products. Suggest you not go into the field of cheap karaoke amps which might change the way people consider the brand.

 

[Mart68]

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?

I'd guess people with no disposable income

2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?

They look like what proper equipment used to look like, at least in the photos. That's a guess too ofc.

I would say that those buying these products are mostly unaware that there is such a thing as classes of amplification. They might look at the power output figure (WPC) as part of the buying process but that's about it. AB vs D will mean nothing to them.

 

[Mart68]

This is opposite to a "Pyle". Someone like Matt Taylor sums it up as a "Mug's Eyeful"... as in the product is flashy and looks good at a distance but close up is actually terrible.

eg.

Not Matt Taylor who described that system as a 'Mug's eyeful' but Lord Alan Sugar, CEO of Amstrad, in his biography.

His hifi company was founded on having cheap tat made by Taiwanese OEMs, tarting it up and selling it to...well... mugs. He cheerfully admits this.

Of course he can do that now he has millions of pounds in the bank and is no longer in the hifi business anyway.

 

[diego_cl]

I would only buy or recommend a cheap A/B amp for a TV with sorround speakers, but it has to come with HDMI for ARC/eARC, latest sorround audio formats (DD+ and Dolby Atmos) and at least 6 speakers. In this case scenario, it would not be worth buying it from overseas due to the cost of shipping and customs. Speakers for a 5.1 system are too expensive unless they come with the receiver. So local retail or second hand market would be probably the best option.

On the other hand I would prefer a stereo A/B amp over the Fosi V3 if it includes a good DAC, Bluetooth (aptx), sub-out and same or better performance.

 

[Waxx]

I own a relative cheap AB integrated amp, an older model Marantz PM5004 (300€) from 2011, and it still is used almost daily in my office for the moment. It's a handy no nonense amp that was cheap, is very reliable and sounds very good on all speakers i connect to it. I don't know where it would land on the sinad map (probally somewhere in the middle), but i don't care, it sounds very good and clean. I got many amps, from all types (from hypex NCore to tubes and class A). But that Marantz is here to stay untill it dies.

I had older (vintage) models before (Marantz 1090 (1978) & Dual CR61 (1974)). The Dual died beyond repair in 1999, the Marantz 1090 was sold to a guy who offered ridiculous money for it in 2011 (that's how i bought the new one). They were old, and especially the Dual had problems, But when they worked right, it was very similar to the newer Marantz i still have, only noisier. The Marantz 1090 was recapped in 2006 because elco's started to swell. It also has been used for smaller parties (pubs/bars) when i was a dj, to drive a high sensitive passive mono system build by a friend (Peavy 15" woofer in reflex, JBL 2" tweeter in JBL 2830 horn) in the late 1980's. I had good times with that Marantz amp, at home and in the pub ... And it's still alive at the house of that guy, driving some older B&W's. I did restore those B&W's a few months ago, and saw my former Marantz still shining in his hifirack...

 

[restorer-john]

A class AB amp similar to the old but very reliable Yamaha M-35 is still of value. I have two of those in my current rotation w/ my various house systems.

The M-35 is a basic, STK (Sanyo hybrid) based amplifier with twin stereo ICs that can bridged into a moderately powered 2 channel amplifier. I have a few of the later MX-35s in my storeroom someplace. It is not a great performer in any respect.

The design was originally created purely as a companion low power effects channel amplifier for the very first DSP processor Yamaha made in 1985-89, the DSP-1. Its purpose was to run the 4 effects channels. That model was your M-35.

The MX-35 made a few minor design changes (added the ugly 80s angled front panel accents) and produced the amplifier in both black and titanium. They were blown out cheap in 1989/90 as a companion to the DSP-100 and DSP-3000 processors.

If you want a better amplifier, get the MX-55. It's all discrete, has over twice the power (at 4ch and 2ch) and is a way better product.

 

[Joe Smith]

The M-35 is a basic, STK (Sanyo hybrid) based amplifier with twin stereo ICs that can bridged into a moderately powered 2 channel amplifier. I have a few of the later MX-35s in my storeroom someplace. It is not a great performer in any respect.

The design was originally created purely as a companion low power effects channel amplifier for the very first DSP processor Yamaha made in 1985-89, the DSP-1. Its purpose was to run the 4 effects channels. That model was your M-35.

The MX-35 made a few minor design changes (added the ugly 80s angled front panel accents) and produced the amplifier in both black and titanium. They were blown out cheap in 1989/90 as a companion to the DSP-100 and DSP-3000 processors.

If you want a better amplifier, get the MX-55. It's all discrete, has over twice the power (at 4ch and 2ch) and is a way better product.

Thanks. They are OK for what they are. I'm mostly buying new amps now, these were bought in my "try everything" phase. If I get a new amp down the road, it will probably be a Buckeye Hypex 2-channel...

 

[Kimbrough Xu]

I would say the following:
1. A first time buyer who doesn't really understand what they are buying so thinks buying something that 'covers' all the options they might need at the cheapest price- they are buying these because of the all the buttons and connections
2. I can imagine someone looking at these products thinks they are buying something with lots of options so won't need to buy something else

The reality is I imagine after they receive one of these they will hardly use it and probably ends up with a bad opinion of the sound quality that a 'cheap' amplifier can provide.

I have different opinion, because they are so popular and they sold so large amount. I prefer they have a real need, maybe they want the karaoke, or maybe they need the FM tuner, or just because they look more like amplifiers than digital amplifiers.

 

[wpo7]

well I have a fosi v3 and also a "Pyle" amp specifically the PTAUWIFI46. the power out of the Pyle is pretty amazing. I'm sure would never test remotely close to the v3 regarding distortion etc. but I must say it's is surprisingly robust and musical driving some harder to power 4 ohm speakers in my spare studio. infact it surpassed the fosi v3 in shear raw power. I love the fosi v3 as well and use it in our bedroom.
funny enough I contacted Pyle support out of curiosity on the amp power draw consumption and amp type. They claimed it was a class d when I'm quite certain it is a class ab. they were also way off on their power draw numbers( as I confirmed later with my own testing).

 

[Multicore]

1. I have no idea.

2. Possibly it is nostalgia for the looks of 80s gear. Something to go with your revival vinyl collection. But really I have no idea.

 

[Philbo King]

They want das buttons und blinkenlights!

 

[Niconoclaste]

On the first hand, the less a system has components, the more a system is reliable. What about building your indent by staying focused on affordable, performant and reliable item ? Simplicity should be helpful, especially when each dollar spent matters when it comes to entry level.

On the other hand, you can add value by implementing not that high costly fancy functions like VU meters, screen, remote or smartphone control, versatile wired/wireless connectivity for most common use cases, appealing/minimalist form factor.

Why not doing a no brainer all in one streamer/DAC/amp/HP amp under 200$ ? Something like the Fosi T10, but with a kind of "sexier" shape (which owners should be proud to show it), why not based on TPA3255 with 48v PSU or LM3886 ? If you want to create bigger/heavier boxes, you can add built in PSU or just leave space for heat or to add intern SSD/HDD in option.

 

[wpo7]

On the first hand, the less a system has components, the more a system is reliable. What about building your indent by staying focused on affordable, performant and reliable item ? Simplicity should be helpful, especially when each dollar spent matters when it comes to entry level.

On the other hand, you can add value by implementing not that high costly fancy functions like VU meters, screen, remote or smartphone control, versatile wired/wireless connectivity for most common use cases, appealing/minimalist form factor.

Why not doing a no brainer all in one streamer/DAC/amp/HP amp under 200$ ? Something like the Fosi T10, but with a kind of "sexier" shape (which owners should be proud to show it), why not based on TPA3255 with 48v PSU or LM3886 ? If you want to create bigger/heavier boxes, you can add built in PSU or just leave space for heat or to add intern SSD/HDD in option.

yes to this.. this is why I initially purchased the Pyle PTAUWIFI46 for the amp, streamer DAC and 6 external station presets for my better half.
everything else is superfluous for our use.

 

[CleanSound]

I wish more manufacturers would solicit product feedback from customers.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?

I would imagine mostly younger people who are budget conscious or casual HiFi hobbyist.

Or from an use case perspective, someone who just want to get something cheap, maybe for their garage or their work desktop.

I don't think people are buying these $100 amps because they are $100 class A/B amps; I think they are buying these $100 amps because they are $100 amps.

2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?
View attachment 298636

Reliability and local support. Of course they will want A through Z, but for a $100, I don't think they would expect A through Z. They will compare and shop around, however, with other $100 amps.

 

[Niconoclaste]

Imagine Fosi does an ersatz of a Yamaha R-N803D < 300$ or, let's dream, < 200$.
This is all people want, I guess.

 

[EJ3]

Fosi Audio has always been committed to thoroughly understanding our user's needs and crafting our products based on those requirements. Currently, our primary focus in the amplifier sector is class-d amplifiers. However, we are well aware that class a/b amplifiers continue to maintain a strong fan base. In fact, many audiophiles prefer analog amplifiers, especially those produced by traditional, established manufacturers.

We notice that class a/b amplifiers priced under $100 are selling exceptionally well on Amazon. While we believe that these amplifiers may not deliver the best quality, they undeniably cater to certain needs of consumers. As an audio company, we are driven to diversify our product line to meet the demands of different customer groups.

In the past, we have produced a few similar models of class a/b amplifiers. However, after careful evaluation—particularly considering the quality control did not meet our own standards—we decided to put the development of these products on hold.

In light of this, we are seeking your opinions on budget class a/b amplifiers priced under $100. We hope that your ideas and suggestions can contribute to our future product development efforts.

Specifically, we would like to ask two questions:

1. Could you describe the demographic of individuals who buy and use these types of class a/b amplifiers?
2. Apart from the price, what aspects of these low-cost class a/b amplifiers appeal to their users?
View attachment 298636

Somehow, these "potential" customers need to be educated about the better quality that Fosi is than some of the competitors. People have had cheap consumerism as a mindset are hard to educate in the benefits of "Less" buttons. switches, etc. is "more" quality for the ones that are there.

 

[kemmler3D]

I used to do audio marketing to consumers in the <$300 price band.

There are only two types of people who would intentionally seek out low-cost "Class A/B" vs. "Class D" amps.

1. People with a smaller budget who have fallen into audiophile superstitions and believe Class A/B are better than Class D for mostly incorrect reasons.

2. People who know absolutely nothing about amps and think that "Class A" corresponds to something like a grade, like A is the best, B, is a little worse, C and D are worse still...

As far as I know there is no practical reason to produce cheap Class A/B instead of Class D. The better option is to attempt to use marketing copy to inform users that the class doesn't matter, or simply ignore the class altogether.

If you call a Class D amp "High efficiency analog amplifier" instead of "Class D", some of the ignorant audiophile types will buy them, not realizing they are Class D. It's a common misconception among less-informed people that "Class D" stands for "Digital", which they don't like for some reason. Analog, they like.

 

[Ron Texas]

The pride/performance ratio of Class D can't be beat.