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Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

Rate this IEM:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 7 1.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 13 3.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 42 10.8%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 326 84.0%

  • Total voters
    388

AdamG

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I order the 2 newer ones (Blessing 3, Red) and can't wait to compare all 4 of them.

What the measurements tell so far:
- Red is Dusk without the slight sibilance.
- B3 is 7Hz Salnotes Zero with more even treble/air.

View attachment 287356
I look forward to hearing your comparison results. It is looking like most IEM’s are tuning their products to confirm to the Harman curve. Eventually it will all boil down to overall distortion, size, “fit and comfort”, aesthetics and price. We can only hope this happens before we all run out of money! :oops:
 

PeteL

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Once the iPhone switches to use the same USB-C interface as all the Android phone then the current limited number of DSP'ed IEM's will become many.
Me I think that it is more likely that Wireless will become indistinguishable from wired. They already dominates the market and they already are DSPed and the fidelity payback is quite small, even debatable. I don't see many people listening to music attached to theit phone when I look around.
 

Jeromeof

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Me I think that it is more likely that Wireless will become indistinguishable from wired. They already dominates the market and they already are DSPed and the fidelity payback is quite small, even debatable. I don't see many people listening to music attached to theit phone when I look around.
I would agree that the majority will be wireless - but I think for those who care about compliance to harman curve or diffuse field with a bass boost etc we are already seeing some IEM's with built in DSP (even the new 'Moondrop Chu' the "Moondrop Jiu" uses a usb-c based DSP to get even closer to harman). We see switches on IEM's currently and now the Truthear with an Impedance Adapter. The logical path (once the electronics are sorted) is DSP within the IEM itself powered by USB-C (instead of battery).
 
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markanini

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I think it is kind of funny calling someone who makes a review "less than constructive". Isn't doing a review all about that, criticizing the product where it is due? I also find it a bit worrisome that once a product (IEM in this case) arrives that is undoubtly reasonably good and cheap, seemingly all critcism has to stop. Why? Is this not a scientifically, objectivist forum seeking the best?
Criticism of value has to be relevant and factual.
 

AdamG

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Last Warning. Stay on topic please. Take any side decisions to a separate thread or go to PM. No further warnings will be posted and any further off topic posts will be deleted and poster will be issued a Warning. For all our sakes take the personality drama elsewhere. This is not the place to discuss this.
 

PeteL

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I would agree that the majority will be wireless - but I think for those who care about compliance to harman curve or diffuse field with a bass boost etc we are already seeing some IEM's with built in DSP (even the new 'Moondrop Chu' the "Moondrop Jiu" uses a usb-c based DSP to get even closer to harman). We see switches on IEM's currently and now the Truthear with an Impedance Adapter. The logical path (once the electronics are sorted) is DSP within the IEM itself powered by USB-C (instead of battery).
Most who care about compliance to the Harman curve may not be the typical wireless earbud customers, But those who makes them certainly care about putting out products that listeners will like. That's the whole idea of a preference curve, You don't have to care about Harman curve to like Harman curve.
 

Jeromeof

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Most who care about compliance to the Harman curve may not be the typical wireless earbud customers, But those who makes them certainly care about putting out products that listeners will like. That's the whole idea of a preference curve, You don't have to care about Harman curve to like Harman curve.
I agree and mostly I have found that those that do care about the what curve they are using, don't really want to use wireless for critical listening (but maybe that will change once 'real' loseless bluetooth becomes the norm). But then possible people don't use their mobile phones as the source when listening on an IEM anyway. I just think the compromise will be wired (with USB-c) and a simple way to change the DSP / EQ to match the curve while not worrying EQ app on their phone or laptop etc.

I quiet like the DSP settings for the Bluetooth ANC headphone I use occasionally as I can move it between devices without worrying about EQ.
 

PeteL

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I agree and mostly I have found that those that do care about the what curve they are using, don't really want to use wireless for critical listening (but maybe that will change once 'real' loseless bluetooth becomes the norm). But then possible people don't use their mobile phones as o change the DSP / EQ to the source when listening on an IEM anyway. I just think the compromise will be wired (with USB-c) and a simple way tmatch the curve while not worrying EQ app on their phone or laptop etc.

I quiet like the DSP settings for the Bluetooth ANC headphone I use occasionally as I can move it between devices without worrying about EQ.
OK, I think the mod don't like us to discuss what's not specific to the tested unit, We probably should stop the discussion and I do not know how to move Posts to an other thread
 
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AdamG

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OK, I think the mod don't like us to discuss what's not specific to the tested unit, We probably should stop the discussion and I do not know how to move Posts to an other thread
If you wish to continue discussing this subject. Start a new thread. Come back here and drop a link to the new thread and we will move the appropriate posts to your new thread. Hope that helps some. But yeah we need to stay on topic. At least for the first 20 pages.

If we can be of any further assistance please feel free to PM me. ;)

Or you can take your conversation over to this Member created Red Thread where you can talk about any issues you want:
 

MayaTlab

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So really it's only the 13kHz resonance peak that is removed by the RA0402 in comparison to Harman's orignal RA0045? The 13kHz resonance peak is an error I infer, so that's good that the RA0402 removes that. The GRAS pdf link suggests that they are identical below that frequency, so it seems RA0402 is in fact better, and any 13kHz resonance peak is not taken into account in any of the Harman Target Curves anyway, so my cursory view is that RA0402 is valid for use with Harman Curve.

EDIT: either way it might still be interesting to see the effect of the metal canal extension vs using the pinna when measuring IEM's, as you mentioned earlier, because that's the way Harman created their IEM curves, with the metal extension.

The 13.5kHz resonance is shifted downwards when using a longer insertion depth, which naturally happens when you combine the coupler with the metal ear canal extension or the silicone pinna and a typical IEM (ex 8kHz resonance). So above X frequency you won’t find a constant transfer fonction between the RA0045 and the RA0402. You can see an example of this below, using CSGLinux’s data (ER2SE being an example of a deeper insertion depth, IG955 a shallower one).

csgl.jpg

With a typical 8kHz insertion depth, the direct comparisons that I’ve seen so far tend to show only a moderate difference between the couplers up to 5-6kHz, of a magnitude that is insufficient to affect the observation that the use of a silicone pinna changes the measured FR quite a bit up to these frequencies, more so than the difference between the RA0045 and RA0402 couplers.
 

Jimbob54

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Did anyone get a shipping notice yet? Really looking forward to this IEM. Amir did an excellent job with this review.
On the Shenzhenaudio page :

PREORDER: Estimated shipping time: May 25 - Jun 5 (shipping according to order sequence)​


So I would guess patience may be needed.
 

AdamG

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On the Shenzhenaudio page :

PREORDER: Estimated shipping time: May 25 - Jun 5 (shipping according to order sequence)​


So I would guess patience may be needed.
IMG_0387.gif
 

Robbo99999

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The 13.5kHz resonance is shifted downwards when using a longer insertion depth, which naturally happens when you combine the coupler with the metal ear canal extension or the silicone pinna and a typical IEM (ex 8kHz resonance). So above X frequency you won’t find a constant transfer fonction between the RA0045 and the RA0402. You can see an example of this below, using CSGLinux’s data (ER2SE being an example of a deeper insertion depth, IG955 a shallower one).

View attachment 287418
With a typical 8kHz insertion depth, the direct comparisons that I’ve seen so far tend to show only a moderate difference between the couplers up to 5-6kHz, of a magnitude that is insufficient to affect the observation that the use of a silicone pinna changes the measured FR quite a bit up to these frequencies, more so than the difference between the RA0045 and RA0402 couplers.
Hang on, why are you showing me more information. You already showed me a link where Harman showed only a difference at 13kHz between RA0045 and RA0402, and that's independant of any metal extension, so why are you talking about a metal extension now, because as I understand it that's the area where you don't know the effect, you don't know the effect of the metal extension, hence why you suggested to Amir that he test the metal extension vs his pinna. Why you make this so complicated, lol! (And yet your graph you show, a new one (facepalm), is again showing the same information but in a different way of what I thought we worked out already that there is a resonance at 13kHz with the RA0045 that isn't there with the RA0402.....why are you making this so complicated. You're a knowledgeable and smart guy but for some reason your posts confuse the hell out of me (about 50% of the time, lol), surely I can't be the only one.
 
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asrUser

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Last Warning. Stay on topic please. Take any side decisions to a separate thread or go to PM. No further warnings will be posted and any further off topic posts will be deleted and poster will be issued a Warning. For all our sakes take the personality drama elsewhere. This is not the place to discuss this.
Why so serious? /insertjokermeme
 

JRS

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Ok, this is a separate discussion. Granted , you can get a good pair of speakers today for a reasonable price. But these are still not at the same level as sota ones like Neumann, Genelec (actives) or Revels, KEFs and the like (passive). For DACs and IEMs this is already the case.
Again beg to differ; owners of Revel Be series report that the Elacs are shockingly close, and with EQ, minor blemishes can be removed. Just one example; set up any of these speakers, dial in EQ, maybe add Dirac and I would submit you are 80-90% "there" (there being a capable 5k/pr speaker). But yes a subject of another thread.
 

raif71

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On the Shenzhenaudio page :

PREORDER: Estimated shipping time: May 25 - Jun 5 (shipping according to order sequence)​


So I would guess patience may be needed.
I was surprised that over here the order came sooner than expected and without hesitation I ordered and realized later that it was pre-order. The seller responded that it will be end of June for the Red to arrive.
 

Hexspa

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you probably woulnd't hear some higher distrotion anyway. You can be honest with yourself by taking: https://www.klippel.de/listeningtest/

also moondrop arias and some other iem have as low, if not even lower distortion plus very similar frequency response.
Note to mods: I believe my following comment is on-topic.

I took this test with an iphone 11 speaker just now. There seems to be a discrepancy among everyone’s assessment about the importance of distortion relating to sound quality. Amir seems to care about it, Klippel is testing people for it, but the Harman research says it’s not important. Low distortion is clearly a feature of this RED product and some are interested purely for this reason. Why if not for sound quality?

While I agree that low levels of distortion can be hard to hear, if given the choice - especially for professional audio work - I’d always take the lowest distortion device. If you take ‘fidelity’ to be synonymous with ‘sound quality’ then I don’t know how anyone can say harmonic distortion doesn’t matter or that there needs to be “a lot” of it.
 

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