Transparent amplification

[Cosmik]

Can't they just do a null test like the old Bob Carver Stereophile challenge?

No help at all, because
(a) a deep null is difficult to get, always being excused by phase shifts, tiny amounts of DC, etc.
(b) no one can say whether the error you do measure is audible or not. You could do a listening test on it, but then you're back to square one.

(I have a feeling they were having this discussion in 1951..!)

 

[watchnerd]

No help at all, because
(a) a deep null is difficult to get, always being excused by phase shifts, tiny amounts of DC, etc.
(b) no one can say whether the error you do measure is audible or not. You could do a listening test on it, but then you're back to square one.

(I have a feeling they were having this discussion in 1951..!)

well, it is a mature industry...

 

[Blumlein 88]

One benefit, even to me as someone who likes measures, is hearing the difference. It is a listening test. Switch the amp in or bypass it and hear a change. There is a gut level satisfaction that is more convincing than numbers on list of measurements for most people.

 

[oivavoi]

One benefit, even to me as someone who likes measures, is hearing the difference. It is a listening test. Switch the amp in or bypass it and hear a change. There is a gut level satisfaction that is more convincing than numbers on list of measurements for most people.

Anyway, I think we all agree on this forum (well, almost all) that amp switching comes far down on the list for things to be concerned about in audio. If one has mega super duper speakers, and acoustics and speaker/listening placement which work as good as they can, no big bass problems to worry about, AND a system which doesn't have inbuilt amplication, then and only then should amp sonics start creating anxiety, IMO (assuming basic power requirements are met of course)

 

[Wombat]

The old hifi way seemed to be finding you favorite coloration from electronics to suit your speakers, acoustics, mood of the day and music choice.
I believe this idea is outdated to large degree and EQ and harmonic distortion added combined with transparent electronics is a better option. But audiophiles seem to enjoy the hunt for a new box. The thrilling excitement that often doesn't last long.

Also, I believe the need to add coloration will greatly be minimized when people get speakers that actually measures well in the important areas.

The old hifi way was hi-fidelity(lack of coloration the aim). This ideal is still alive and well. Subjective preference(no definitive standard} is a later development in time.

 

[fas42]

The notion that the Bryston results demonstrate anything about the validity of the test is absurd. How can one know whether the Bryston amplifiers are really "nailing the track" if you haven't heard the track on similarly "transparent" gear before? The gestalt of one's memories of playback on lots of less transparent gear does not yield a memory of what the track is actually like.

That statement reminds of the Absolute Sound's review of the infamous AudioQuest battery cables, which the reviewer claimed to be the most transparent he had heard based on his sighted, subjective tests. How could he know if he had only heard comparatively non-transparent cables before?

The similarly "transparent" gear is my own - many combos of speakers, amplifiers, etc, which I evolve to the point of "only hearing the recording". In particular, such playback conveys the subjective experience of "standing besides the microphone" - there is no sense of listening through an electronic haze, which is what 99.9% of systems aren't able to surmount.

If one can "hear through the system" there are a whole suite of positive behaviours that came with that result - one of which is that the recording "always sounds the same" - it's like meeting a member of one's family: the hair may be different, clothes vary, age added on; but all the tiny visual and auditory "mannerisms" confirm that indeed this is the exact person that I know well.

I've had some strange listening experinces with high end rigs - some twist a known recording into a bizarre caricature; they turn the listening into a midfi experience - I would prefer hearing it on a car radio in these cases.

 

[watchnerd]

The similarly "transparent" gear is my own - many combos of speakers, amplifiers, etc, which I evolve to the point of "only hearing the recording". In particular, such playback conveys the subjective experience of "standing besides the microphone" - there is no sense of listening through an electronic haze, which is what 99.9% of systems aren't able to surmount.

If one can "hear through the system" there are a whole suite of positive behaviours that came with that result - one of which is that the recording "always sounds the same" - it's like meeting a member of one's family: the hair may be different, clothes vary, age added on; but all the tiny visual and auditory "mannerisms" confirm that indeed this is the exact person that I know well.

I've had some strange listening experinces with high end rigs - some twist a known recording into a bizarre caricature; they turn the listening into a midfi experience - I would prefer hearing it on a car radio in these cases.

@fas42 I've decided I want to be you, where I can still listen to the crappiest system in the world and achieve euphoria.

That being said, I did have a golden moment last night, driving home, listening to the car stereo (which isn't half bad, tailor-made car audio options are pretty decent these days), it was a dark but clear night, the road nearly empty of traffic, the radio station was playing choral renditions of 'The First Noel', and I was seeing houses lit up with Christmas tree lights.

It was one of those magical right music at the right time moments, which transcended technical fidelity definitions.

But I still think you're a nutter when it comes to laptop speakers.

 

[fas42]

Glad you enjoyed your Xmas magic, ...

It's not crappy systems, or laptop speakers that lift me to great heights - it's hearing qualities in the sound which are markers for the setup getting some important things right; that's the interesting bit, joining the dots as to what allows low cost equipment to send the right messages. By contrast, a high percentage of expensive rigs are such a confused mess of 'wrongness' and hyper detailing, that only a small percentage of recordings are tolerable on them ...

The current laptop is not half bad, with the sound, if I make some efforts; none of the units I had before this were the slightest bit promising; so, they were indeed in the "crappy" category, and, ignored ...

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I propose that the admins close this thread before we really go off the deep end.

Just put him on your Ignore list. Suddenly, life becomes serene, beautiful, much less complicated and vexing, since he ceases to exist in your forum experience.

 

[Thomas savage]

Come on guys, just put your head between ( in) your laptop speakers while sitting on a huge mound of blu tac ... all will become clear, it’s Christmas what better things have you got planed?

 

[amirm]

Come on guys, just put your head between ( in) your laptop speakers while sitting on a huge mound of blu tac ...

That's spiced eggnog talking....

 

[CuteStudio]

A chap I knew used to say something that made sense: Good music transcends the medium... which nicely puts HiFi systems into perspective

 

[fas42]

A chap I knew used to say something that made sense: Good music transcends the medium... which nicely puts HiFi systems into perspective

Which inspires me to rework the concept: Good reproduction transcends the material ... I find it remarkable how the most banal music, or a style which would be impossible to take seriously on normal audio, becomes satisfying, pleasurable with capable playback. The magic of music, as a sensation which feeds the senses, works so beautifully ... what's with this, err, "intellectual" listening, which seems to be so important to some ...

 

[CuteStudio]

When I get to the stage of listening to banal music just because of the HiFi please give slap me until I realise what I have done and promise never to do it again

 

[fas42]

When I get to the stage of listening to banal music just because of the HiFi please give slap me until I realise what I have done and promise never to do it again

On a serious note - and this would certainly be dependent on the way individuals tick - the answer is that the musical notes in themselves are satisfying; imagine the most banal piece being played on the grandest pipe organ, where you are located only feet away from the action is ... it's no longer the composition that matters, it's the texture of the sound, its visceral qualities.

 

[RayDunzl]

it's no longer the composition that matters

 

[fas42]

Okay then ...

 

[stunta]

oivavoi:
<...snip...>
FIY: I'm planning to send our coming Ncore amp to LTS for a before/after test. As long as they want to test it of course.

Any update on this? I am very interested because I've never liked Class D amps (the music sounds compressed to my ears) but with all the hype around Hypex, I figured I will give it a try. The compactness of class D amps is a big draw for me given the tight spaces I have to deal with in a domestic environment. I have a pair of NC400 monoblocks soon to be on their way across the pond. My stomach churns at the cost (around $1800 USD after shipping, customs etc.) but I am treating this as my last hurrah with Class D for a long time. I did consider s/h NAD & ATI units that have NCores but the surrounding customization would make it unclear what I am evaluating. For comparison, I will have the Emotiva XPA-2 Gen3 amp.

For reference, I will be driving a pair of ATC SCM19 loudspeakers.

Cheers!

 

[Purité Audio]

Wouldn’t you be better off just buying active ATCs?
Keith

 

[Bjorn]

Any update on this? I am very interested because I've never liked Class D amps (the music sounds compressed to my ears) but with all the hype around Hypex, I figured I will give it a try. The compactness of class D amps is a big draw for me given the tight spaces I have to deal with in a domestic environment. I have a pair of NC400 monoblocks soon to be on their way across the pond. My stomach churns at the cost (around $1800 USD after shipping, customs etc.) but I am treating this as my last hurrah with Class D for a long time. I did consider s/h NAD & ATI units that have NCores but the surrounding customization would make it unclear what I am evaluating. For comparison, I will have the Emotiva XPA-2 Gen3 amp.

For reference, I will be driving a pair of ATC SCM19 loudspeakers.

Cheers!

It will take some time to finish the amplifier. The technical part has been completed but not the design of the chassis.
Ncore measures extremely well with super low distortion, so it will certainly not "compress" the music.