Transparent amplification

[Thomas savage]

hi,

So we have a dac, now I want some amps to go with it. Same m.o budget $1000 must be technically correct. Great design only our more experienced and knowledgeable members will recognise (not me then).

no audiophile distractions, no silly inflated prices based on delusion. Just solid EE and design, a amp that... Adds nothing and takes nothing.

Not high end but high fidelity.

 

[Purité Audio]

BPs NCores probably the best measuring of any amp but you have to put them together yourself or look out for a second hand 'made ' pair.
Keith

 

[Thomas savage]

Like this Keith?

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/hypex-amps

 

[Purité Audio]

Hypex sell everything but you have to put them together yourself, but there are often pre assembled examples available second hand. They are superb amps .
Keith.

 

[Thomas savage]

What about the Nord ones From that link.. I thought they were pre assembled, ready to go.

More suggestions welcome..

Class a/b maybe?

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

hi,

So we have a dac, now I want some amps to go with it. Same m.o budget $1000 must be technically correct. Great design only our more experienced and knowledgeable members will recognise (not me then).

no audiophile distractions, no silly inflated prices based on delusion. Just solid EE and design, a amp that... Adds nothing and takes nothing.

Not high end but high fidelity.

Parasound A-23. Under your budget here in the US, but not over there, especially not after Br*#t.

(Moderated for profanity)

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Seriously, I have had two Parasound A23s (120w/200w @ 8/4 ohms) for my surround and back channels for close to 9 years. When I bought them, I compared them extensively in stereo A-B listening to a $22k/pair (1995 prices) Krell Class A monoblocks. Really not much difference sonically, except the more powerful Krells had more bass wallop.

I know not many here are Wilson fans, but a friend bought a big, expensive Wilson passive sub. Their amp recommendation straight from Peter McGrath, their VP and a prominent audio guy, was a bridged A23 (400w bridged). Interesting! They recommended a $1,000 amp to drive their $10,000 subwoofer.

It is a John Curl design, if that means anything. Made in Asia, which accounts for the low price. Excellent warranty.

 

[cjf]

I'll second the recommendation of pursuing a pair of Hypex NC400 DIY amps. Though, even used they will cost more than your budget allows for by almost double

My advice would be to sell your soul or your #%!?! if need be so you can lay your grubby mits on them

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

As I understand it (and I may not, and am open to correction ), amplification is the first difficult hurdle because amps interact very directly with speakers, which can present inconsistent, difficult loads. I'm no engineer, but because I'm not, I think the best path is to trust engineers, specifically the engineers who design and build the amps and speakers, to match them better than I could. So I look at active speakers. Along with the benefit of an engineered system, actives are much easier to drive very well because each amp only has to drive one driver, and it doesn't have to push through a passive crossover in the process. This is not to say that passive systems can't be very good, but I suspect that to be as good, or even close, they have to be much more expensive. I'm in the market right now. I'd like to wait until JBL introduces an active line that falls between the LSR305/308 and the M2. There's a huge gap in their line right now, and I'd sure like to hear what will fill it before I lay my money down. In the meantime, the LSR 305's are so cheap, I may go ahead and buy a pair, and an Emotiva DAC, and upgrade the speakers later. I can always move the 305s to my desktop.

Tim

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yes, hard to recommend a truly transparent amp without knowing the partnering speakers.

I have described inserting power amps between source and power amp on the speakers in some experiments years ago. Load the in between amp with power resistors and ladder resistors to create unity gain. I found only one that was transparent vs interconnect wire done like this. That was a Spectral. Some others came close, but not quite. The one getting closest without quite managing the disappearing trick was a Classe DR25. That was around 20 years ago however. You also would like to develop a load to mimic the complexity of your speakers as an amp might pass signal transparently with a resistive load, but not complex loads with inductance and capacitance. As only one passed the easy test I didn't go further at the time.

I did do something similar with a Tact digital amplifier since that time. It was transparent with the easy resistive load though not with complex speaker loads.

I have not repeated that test with modern amps though I believe some of the better class D gear, like the Hypex or others might manage the trick or get close. You might do it for under $1000, but that depends heavily on the speaker in use. I always recommend people choose a speaker and works backwards if building a system from scratch. Just as a for instance, I don't think there is a transparent amp for my Soundlab ESLs for that price though I could be wrong.

Also, from my testing back when, you can rule out tube amps altogether. And yes I had access to some of the 'mightier and loftier' brands from that time.

 

[Sal1950]

I've always been a fan of Nelson Pass class A and A/B designs. His earlier work for Adcom resulted in some excellent low cost options. I owned a couple during a prior life surround system. When putting together my current 5.2 system I needed 5+ channels for amplification at a price I could afford so I turned to the used market and picked up 2 GFA545 II and a GFA5400 for a total of under $700 shipped. These amps are built like tanks and have passed the test of time with a amazing reliability record. If one should let the smoke out I've got a guy in the wings ready to repair or do cap updates if I desire.
If I had the cash my choice would be a few of the current Pass Labs hulks but five figure expenditures aren't in the cards this week.
Not a very green approach like some modern class D amps, but I've never been accused of being a green type of guy.
To my ears the system sounds plenty transparent and no Windex treatments are pressing.

 

[RayDunzl]

Green-ness...

Electric Car: "For a 2012 Nissan Leaf, its average rated efficiency of 99 MPGe translates to 34 kilowatt-hours per 100 miles. Just multiply that by your electric cost."

If we figure that to be two hours of driving excitement vs two hours of musical bewilderment here in my non-green listening area, sitting here is 34 times more efficient than driving around.

Boom. I'm green after all. Now I don't feel so bad.

 

[Thomas savage]

One day the methane under the oceans will bust out, our planet will lose its atmosphere like Mars did... There will be no life here on planet earth.

Whether you have class A amps or a 3.5 v6 under your bonnet won't matter a toss!

There was a ice age, I don't remember reading it was caused by not recycling

It's likely the planet will go through extreme cliamate change long before the sun implodes, humans surviving these conditions is of no concern to me. The planet would be better off without us, so if anyone really cares about the planet I recommend 'the ultimate solution '

 

[Sal1950]

There was a ice age, I don't remember reading it was caused by not recycling

I remember that, I called it Chicago.
Never again to chip the ice off my windshield
That's why I moved to Florida

 

[TBone]

Yes, hard to recommend a truly transparent amp without knowing the partnering speakers.

I have described inserting power amps between source and power amp on the speakers in some experiments years ago. Load the in between amp with power resistors and ladder resistors to create unity gain. I found only one that was transparent vs interconnect wire done like this. That was a Spectral. Some others came close, but not quite. The one getting closest without quite managing the disappearing trick was a Classe DR25. That was around 20 years ago however. You also would like to develop a load to mimic the complexity of your speakers as an amp might pass signal transparently with a resistive load, but not complex loads with inductance and capacitance. As only one passed the easy test I didn't go further at the time.

Interesting experiment. Surprised the DR25 was listed. Curious, which other amps came close, but not quite?

 

[clpetersen]

BPs NCores probably the best measuring of any amp but you have to put them together yourself or look out for a second hand 'made ' pair.
Keith

Going back to the original post, I recommend considering amplifiers by ATI. There are several models available below $1K. I own the 1202 myself. No frills, no nonsense, class A/B amps with excellent performance and reliability. If you want to spend more they have fully balanced designs that offer better SNR (not really important at these numbers - better than 120 dB), and better slew rates (which could be important).
I strongly considered building a set of N-cores. In the end I went with ATI for a known, bullet proof design concept.

 

[iridium]

One day the methane under the oceans will bust out, our planet will lose its atmosphere like Mars did... There will be no life here on planet earth.

Whether you have class A amps or a 3.5 v6 under your bonnet won't matter a toss!

There was a ice age, I don't remember reading it was caused by not recycling

It's likely the planet will go through extreme cliamate change long before the sun implodes, humans surviving these conditions is of no concern to me. The planet would be better off without us, so if anyone really cares about the planet I recommend 'the ultimate solution '

Great Post!
iridium.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm sure these modern SS kits sound fabulous,
But how kool is this for $150! LOL
It's even got a VU meter!
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=13194&gclid=CJL4v6_Dws4CFcNehgodLGQCKg

 

[Jinjuku]

Yamaha P2500S for $430

 

[watchnerd]

Not high end but high fidelity.

Crown XLi 800, $229 on Amazon:

Binding posts & Speakon connectors
XLR balanced & RCA inputs
300W into 4 ohms
Rugged and reliable

But....separate amps are so 2 years ago. Why aren't you looking for active speakers?