I need to listen flac. Which approach is best to use?

[Waxx]

I have silent computer. My room is 3,5X4x3(H) und I can sit about 3-4m from the front of speakers. Kef R3 is out of budget. I have already read about Kef LS50 Wireless and I like this solution, including aesthetics. But the budget...

KEF LS50 really needs a sub, that's why i did not mention it. But with a sub (or more than one) it's a great solution.

What is your budget? That helps to recommend. The R3 is just an example. There are many good speakers in all kind of budgets. And if you consider second hand the choice is even bigger.

 

[Steiners]

Hi,
You don't say how loud you like to listen, which determines how much power you may need to produce that ( measured as spl... 70 dB is moderately loud, enough for me). Additionally, Chamber music has a large dynamic range - and you will want extra power to properly deal with that.
I'd echo @ZolaIII 's recommendation of active speakers like the Kali LP 8. It's a more efficient use of the amplification.
You will have enough for a decent DAC with a volume control. Use your computer for streaming into the DAC for now.
That should fit your budget and sound lovely

Enjoy

Hi,

not loud mostly of time. Good sound at low volume is important for me. Active speakers was my first idea. But just to understand, why mostly of HiFi sites and reviews speak about apms und speakers, and not about monitors? As is they are not for home.

 

[Steiners]

KEF LS50 really needs a sub, that's why i did not mention it. But with a sub (or more than one) it's a great solution.

What is your budget? That helps to recommend. The R3 is just an example. There are many good speakers in all kind of budgets. And if you consider second hand the choice is even bigger.

My budget is up to 600€. I consider used equipment

 

[Waxx]

For a full system? That won't be enough if you count in the computer or phone. But if it's only dac/amp/speaker, maybe a pair of active Kali LP6 (400€ for a pair) and a dac of choice. A SMSL D12 costs about 125€ and is transparent and has volume control and USB and BT connectivity. That's probally among the best you'll get for that budget. There are more dacs that could fit, but i'm to lazy to search . Anything above 100dB sinad and a volume control that can connect to your device is good concerning dac's for this if they are solid build and have decent output power.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi,

not loud mostly of time. Good sound at low volume is important for me. Active speakers was my first idea. But just to understand, why mostly of HiFi sites and reviews speak about apms und speakers, and not about monitors? As is they are not for home.

It's a good question, with a simple answer: bias (also possibly ignorance but I'll give reviews who say that the benefit of doubt).
A good speaker is a good speaker, regardless of where you put the amps.

There are discussion points about how to upgrade active speakers when all the components are in one box. Even here, it's the actual speaker that affects your sound, not the electronics so the upgrade path is basically the same either way.

Choose a solution that works for you. With your listening distance and budget, my money would go on active speakers.

@sweetchaos has a great speaker comparison resource btw, I think it's in his profile signature. Those Kali's are hard to beat at that price though.

 

[Steiners]

For a full system? That won't be enough if you count in the computer or phone. But if it's only dac/amp/speaker, maybe a pair of active Kali LP6 (400€ for a pair) and a dac of choice. A SMSL D12 costs about 125€ and is transparent and has volume control and USB and BT connectivity. That's probally among the best you'll get for that budget. There are more dacs that could fit, but i'm to lazy to search . Anything above 100dB sinad and a volume control that can connect to your device is good concerning dac's for this if they are solid build and have decent output power.

I have computer with 1Tb music. The budget is only for audio. For 500-600€ I can get right know for example 3030i used for 300 and some dac/amp for the rest.

 

[Steiners]

It's a good question, with a simple answer: bias (also possibly ignorance but I'll give reviews who say that the benefit of doubt).
A good speaker is a good speaker, regardless of where you put the amps.

There are discussion points about how to upgrade active speakers when all the components are in one box. Even here, it's the actual speaker that affects your sound, not the electronics so the upgrade path is basically the same either way.

Choose a solution that works for you. With your listening distance and budget, my money would go on active speakers.

Those Kali's are hard to beat at that price though.

Kali says „The LP-6 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.2 Meters, and the LP-8 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.8 Meters"

 

[Steven Holt]

Kali says „The LP-6 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.2 Meters, and the LP-8 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.8 Meters"

This is typical listening distance for about any speaker. Don't worry about it. I strongly suggest you take a hard look at them. And I guarantee you the world will NOT come to an end if you listen at 3.5 m.

 

[staticV3]

Kali says „The LP-6 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.2 Meters, and the LP-8 has a Maximum Listening Distance of 2.8 Meters"

2.8 meters is the distance at which the LP-8 can still give you hearing damage:


If you're not interested in damaging your hearing, then the LP-8 will do just fine even at 4m.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Hi all,

I'm new to the HIFI world and trying to get the approach is right for me before I buy anything. I would like to hear the opinions of experienced in this topic.

Goal: Play mostly chamber classical music saved in flac format. Music is sorted into folders. Nothing else is needed. Place for speakers is only on shelves, maximum 0.2m from the wall, distance to the listener 3-4m. Budget is 500-600€.

After googling, I came up with two options:

1 . Android phone + LDAC -> amp -> speakers
+: Any player can be used. No need remote control
-: lower than CD quality. But the question is will I be able to hear it? I'm not young and not audiophile.
2. Computer -> (dac -> amp) -> speakers
+: maximum quality
+: foobar2000 ;-)
-: computer always on
-: It’s not clear how to ensure high-quality transfer from a computer to a DAC. I've read about problems with the built-in optical outputs and USB transfers.

There were two more options, but I discarded them (maybe I’m wrong):
a) Active speakers. In my budget I only see monitors, but 3-4 meters may be far + this is a tool for work, not pleasure, right?
b) Computer -> streamer(DNLA) + phone -> (dac -> amp) -> speakers. Here, firstly, I'm tied to the streamer app (does it see the folders?). Secondly, I'm paying for a bunch of features that I don't need. And I get all the disadvantages of option 2.

So, what's your opinion? I would be grateful for advice on choosing a concept and specific examples of equipment.

Computer to DAC would work fine. From the DAC you could use the RCA outs to feed an amp or powered speakers. There are also amps and powered speakers with USB inputs that would work. I have my music on an NAS in FLAC format. I generally use DNLA or SMB to move the music over wifi or ethernet. From there you have a variety of options.

 

[ZolaIII]

@Steiners I have Q3030i's and they are bit hard to control thanks to large back port's so I use them with port's plugged and 2x 10" sub's and that works in similar sized room on 3 m. They are uper midrange recessed and ideal vertical angle is 12~15°.
Forget what Kali says it's simple bigger the distance you need larger speakers. So 8" is minimum and they will play nicely up to 4 m distance, maybe not to a full level calibration 86~88 dB SPL A stereo (83~85 mono) but up to 80 certainly. Anyway the monitors and home speakers with larger woffer's are rare and you don't have money for flore sanders. You won't be listening on 4 m in 4 m long room more realistically 2.8 m (if you can give 1m behind yourself would be more than appreciated). Kali's have unbalanced inputs which isn't really common on monitors and there you save on not having to get balanced DAC or interface.
You probably already have a DAC amp for headphones and as long it has SINAD of 100 dB or more and gives 2V out unbalanced you are covered.
Pay attention to getting measurement microphone and using DSP room correction software or it will sound bad in the small room no matter which speakers you pick. In such placement you will have first room mode spike about 40~44 Hz and will be huge but that's a good thing (with DSP) as you will be able to tune them to go that low and even lower.

 

[DVDdoug]

But just to understand, why mostly of HiFi sites and reviews speak about apms und speakers, and not about monitors? As is they are not for home.

It's a just a "different market".

A lot of it is tradition. Stereo receivers and AVRs have built-in amplifiers for passive speakers. With multi-channel surround setup, supplying power to 5 or 7 or more surround speakers gets inconvenient and "messy". Sometimes it's difficult just running the speaker wires.

Active monitors are more common among "audio hobbyists" and "audiophiles", although many audiophiles tend to be traditional... Some like vacuum tubes and viny records.

Most monitors don't have grills so they have a different appearance and the drivers are not protected from kids, pets, or accidents.

"Computer speakers" are powered but generally they don't have the same sound quality as monitors or hi-fi speakers.

 

[Steiners]

Well, I probably came up with the following solution: DAC with Bluetooth(AptxHD/LDAC) -> Kali LP8. I can use any source I like and if suddenly Kali is not to my liking, I can switch to an amplifier + passive speakers. In any case, it’s not easy for me with passive speakers, because the wall is close and the port is preferably in front. The choice is small in this case.

Thank you all so much for your advice and expert opinions! Great forum!

 

[ZolaIII]

Well, I probably came up with the following solution: DAC with Bluetooth(AptxHD/LDAC) -> Kali LP8. I can use any source I like and if suddenly Kali is not to my liking, I can switch to an amplifier + passive speakers. In any case, it’s not easy for me with passive speakers, because the wall is close and the port is preferably in front. The choice is small in this case.

Thank you all so much for your advice and expert opinions! Great forum!

Hold on the horses! It won't work or at least not satisfactory. I told you already X times how measurement microphone (like UMIK-1) is a key to see what happens and to be able to focus on fixing it. Secondly you need DSP which can make desired changes and preferably to any input source you might or might not want to use. With local reproduction it's easy. You need Foobar 2000 and room EQ for it.

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From Windows PC of course and with two chenel DAC. If you want that it applies to all sources that you can play on PC then you need JRiver with WDM intermediate driver and you also get equal loudness normalisation (ISO 226 2003), good embedded plugin suport, volume controls, remote app support (JRemote 2 also paid and not very polished and abandoned) convolver ain't good (lags a lot) but you use plugin VTS one instead and so on.
If you want to be able to possibly expand setup one day then you need multichannel audio card or interface instead of stereo DAC. If you want self stand DSP then MiniDSP Flex but you don't have money for it.
First you buy speaker and microphone and see what and how much it needs to be corrected. You can use even MB audio out for the purpose and until get something better (for the time). If you can pass with cuple of PEQ filters then something like WiiM Pro Plus streamer (with all streaming services, DLNA and inputs it supports) might be good choice (stereo only). Hopefully they will increase number of PEQ's from only 4 currently (and separate per chenel).
BT is lossy and with very limited range especially on high bit rare more quality codecs like LDAC. WiFi is much better and lose less.
Remember Rome whosent build in one day.

 

[staticV3]

Well, I probably came up with the following solution: DAC with Bluetooth(AptxHD/LDAC) -> Kali LP8.

Agree with Zolall.

Instead of a simple DAC, get a WiiM Mini/Pro/Pro Plus.
You can connect to it via Bluetooth/Toslink/Ethernet/WiFi, and you get four bands of Parametric EQ to apply global room correction (supposedly eight bands on the Pro in the near future).

For this you will also need a UMIK-1, which is well worth it.

You'll get noticeably better sound quality that way, compared to a simple DAC.

Also, make sure you get the LP-8v2, not the original LP-8.

 

[Steiners]

Hold on the horses! It won't work or at least not satisfactory. I told you already X times how measurement microphone (like UMIK-1) is a key to see what happens and to be able to focus on fixing it. Secondly you need DSP which can make desired changes and preferably to any input source you might or might not want to use. With local reproduction it's easy. You need Foobar 2000 and room EQ for it.

Home

Professional Audio Plug-Ins

mathaudio.com

From Windows PC of course and with two chenel DAC. If you want that it applies to all sources that you can play on PC then you need JRiver with WDM intermediate driver and you also get equal loudness normalisation (ISO 226 2003), good embedded plugin suport, volume controls, remote app support (JRemote 2 also paid and not very polished and abandoned) convolver ain't good (lags a lot) but you use plugin VTS one instead and so on.
If you want to be able to possibly expand setup one day then you need multichannel audio card or interface instead of stereo DAC. If you want self stand DSP then MiniDSP Flex but you don't have money for it.
First you buy speaker and microphone and see what and how much it needs to be corrected. You can use even MB audio out for the purpose and until get something better (for the time). If you can pass with cuple of PEQ filters then something like WiiM Pro Plus streamer (with all streaming services, DLNA and inputs it supports) might be good choice (stereo only). Hopefully they will increase number of PEQ's from only 4 currently (and separate per chenel).
BT is lossy and with very limited range especially on high bit rare more quality codecs like LDAC. WiFi is much better and lose less.
Remember Rome whosent build in one day.

Thanks for your advices! I was already advised here to do a DSP correction, I read about it and realized that it is really worth. I think to do it when the speakers will be already instaled, so I could check the difference right away. I've been using Foobar2000 for many years.
As for WIIM, I don’t understand why it is better for me. I'am going to transfer high-quality sound from the computer via wires. If I or my friend need to play something from his phone, then Bluetooth is more convenient than installing the WIIM application. In addition, I found a lot of DACs on this forum with good ratings and much cheaper than WIIM. And I don't believe that anyone can be able to hear the difference between LDAC and WIFI on my set up.
It's very unlikely that I'll want a multi-channel system. Perhaps only a subwoofer.

 

[ZolaIII]

Meh WiiM is more hipe as it is, streaming is popular and that is that. If you only have to play flacs from PC foobar 2000 is more than sufficient and you have free room correction and easy to use plugin for it as shown. You can also enable PEQ or convolver trough VTS plugin for it and VTS plugins.

How effective would heavy ceiling treatment work here?

I agree with the previously mentioned comments that the wall of glass windows is more of a concern than the ceiling.

www.audiosciencereview.com

Well for subwoofer you need separate chenel so that you can set crossover and high pass as you want meaning multichannel audio card.
Have a nice time and enjoy.

 

[Timcognito]

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[Ken Tajalli]

1 . Android phone + LDAC -> amp -> speakers
+: Any player can be used. No need remote control
-: lower than CD quality. But the question is will I be able to hear it? I'm not young and not audiophile.

To use this system, you would need a sender and a receiver. LDAC is a wireless Bluetooth system for sending music from A to B.
If you do not need to send wirelessly, this is not for you.
LDAC is pretty good, but it has its own issues. Sound quality is 99% there.

2. Computer -> (dac -> amp) -> speakers
+: maximum quality
+: foobar2000 ;-)
-: computer always on
-: It’s not clear how to ensure high-quality transfer from a computer to a DAC. I've read about problems with the built-in optical outputs and USB transfers.

This is an easier, more straight forward solution.
USB and optical are both fine, if you use ASIO or WASAPI (transparent). You could use a laptop.
Install Jriver media player on it (about a one off $30), and it will organise and play your files flawlessly. Need Equaliser or DSP? Jriver has it all included. You can even use a windows infra red remote to control it, or there are crap apps to control it via your phone. Beats foobar on convenience every time.

There were two more options, but I discarded them (maybe I’m wrong):
a) Active speakers. In my budget I only see monitors, but 3-4 meters may be far + this is a tool for work, not pleasure, right?
b) Computer -> streamer(DNLA) + phone -> (dac -> amp) -> speakers. Here, firstly, I'm tied to the streamer app (does it see the folders?). Secondly, I'm paying for a bunch of features that I don't need. And I get all the disadvantages of option 2.

If you need to stream your music, you can use a second laptop! set one Jriver as server, and the one connected to the DAC as receiver. Jriver can do that through DLNA. You can even use your Android phone, with a copy of UAPP app or Neutron app, and stream through DLNA to the jriver that is connected to the DAC.
To spoil all that advice!
jriver has a steep learning curve that can be fun and frustrating. there is a very active and helpful forum for all your issues.
Neutron app for Android is the ultimate music player, and as ultimately difficult to learn.

 

[Toni Mas]

3-4m listening distance is huge and not recomendable at all, especially if the distancee between speakers is not also similar. Reverberated sound will dominate causing confusion, and imaging will suffer due to atypical listening triangle. Whatever the gear in use... Worst posible choice small studios monitors of course...