Topping E30 DAC Review

[Pdxwayne]

here is a photo, unfortunately I can not extract the card, you see a serial number inside.
Cosa ne pensi?

Oh no! it is not showing 2004xx. What is your serial number on the outside shell?

 

[jannek]

I don't think the production number of the display board is necessarily the same as that of the main board...

 

[Aldoszx]

There is L/N:2009, the last label shown in the picture !
So, I suppose it is the 2009 version.

 

[nerone]

Oh no! it is not showing 2004xx. What is your serial number on the outside shell?

No, the external serial number on the label starts with 2010 ...

 

[Pdxwayne]

No, the external serial number on the label starts with 2010 ...

Like mentioned by @jannek , the number in your picture could be for the screen and not main board. So hard to tell about main board. Thanks for checking!

 

[nerone]

Is this test valid for checking polarity reversal?

 

[half_dog]

Is this test valid for checking polarity reversal?

No no. The polarity issue discussed is absolute polarity. This test is about polarity between left and right channels (more specifically 180° of phase reversal). On absolute polarity both channels are on phase to each other, but can be or not reversed related to the input signal.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Unfortunately, I will be very busy with work for the next few days and won't have time to do more tests with my stereo setup until this weekend.

Anyway, I am curious if there could be differences between USB vs toslink input.

In headphones setup, I use laptop USB output. I didn't observe strange issue with bagpipes high notes.

In my stereo setup, I used node2i toslink output. I heard strange issue.

Is there any possibility that the phase issue is fixed for USB path and not toslink path?

Thanks!

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I have seen posts referencing serial numbers before 2004xxx are of concern, and that serial numbers from 2009xxx onward are all good.

Checking with this group to see whether or not I should be concerned. The SN for my Silver E30 is 2005xxx, the SN on the box was covered over by a UPC sticker from the seller (had to peel it off to find the SN), and the E30 unit itself does not have a SN on the side of it.

I should be fine since the SN is above 2400xxx and Topping Support did confirm that I bought it from an authorized seller. Still, seems odd that there is no SN on the unit and that the SN on the box was covered over... so being a bit paranoid on myside

 

[solderdude]

here is a photo, unfortunately I can not extract the card, you see a serial number inside.
Cosa ne pensi?

That is the display board, not the E30 board. The issue was not on the display board.
Clearly the display board was made after 2004 so the E30 board will also be in that range.
Stop worrying !!

 

[companyja]

Well hold on, if he can measure the output of the toslink-fed signal versus USB-fed signal, then he can be sure. It might be worrying for new buyers if this problem still persists even on certain 2004+ boards. I was also worried about this before I ordered my E30+L30 combo, still haven't recieved them so can't check atm.

What I'd do is connect the dac to the PC with both USB and TOSLINK, then do the absolute polarity blind test. I'd make sure to hear it first correctly with USB, get something like 5/5, then just flip the switch to TOSLINK and try guessing the next one without re-listening to the original or inverted phase. If suddenly you start getting all of them wrong, it's likely the phase is reversed for TOSLINK. If you keep doing them perfect, then the phase is the same with USB and TOSLINK.

What I always wondered is how they address the polarity issue with the driver for both pre-2004 and post-2004 boards. Did they revise only COAX/TOSLINK out in hardware, and then kept the phase fix only in software for USB? If they revised the board completely then the driver would re-invert the phase for 2004+ units, no?

 

[Toku]

Don't trust the phase inversion test sound source on the web too much.
The most reliable test method is to check with your own ears the change in sound quality when + -is switched at the speaker connection terminal. My ears can't detect the change at all.

 

[Pdxwayne]

It is late, thus I used my phone again to test. Initially I got lots of failures. Then I settled on listening for the last few riffs punchiness and finally got 99% confidence. Still got quite a few wrong. I think I may have more confidence checking E30 via headphones next.

Edit:
Forgot to mention, the original is punchier.

 

[nerone]

@solderdude, since i have the option to return it to amazon i was just wondering whether to keep it or return it

 

[voodooless]

@solderdude, since i have the option to return it to amazon i was just wondering whether to keep it or return it

Why would you return it?

I can't believe we're still talking about this phase reversal issue more than half a year later just because somebody things the bass and bagpipes of the E30 is different from the X16

 

[solderdude]

Well hold on, if he can measure the output of the toslink-fed signal versus USB-fed signal, then he can be sure.

Not when it didn't get the software update that only 'fixed' the USB input. He would still have to measure it. In this case the ser# suggests it is fine.

What I always wondered is how they address the polarity issue with the driver for both pre-2004 and post-2004 boards. Did they revise only COAX/TOSLINK out in hardware, and then kept the phase fix only in software for USB? If they revised the board completely then the driver would re-invert the phase for 2004+ units, no?

The quick fix for the pre-2004 boards was a firmware 'fix' but this ONLY fixed the USB input.
At that time they revised the board. With it also came new firmware which is NOT the same as for the pre-2004 boards.

One can worry all day long. This is a product done in large series so all of them will have correct firmware and PCB's from that day forward.
Possible the firmware can be updated but they sure aren't going to change the absolute polarity again.

 

[solderdude]

@solderdude, since i have the option to return it to amazon i was just wondering whether to keep it or return it

Keep it. The ser.# suggests it doesn't have the (non) issue. This issue was almost a year ago ! It does not apply in this case.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Playing with https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php, laptop USB -> E30 ->L30 -> headphones, I can't really feel that the original file have that slight extra punchiness.....With my phone to headphones, the original file is punchier.

So, if E30 is inverted, and I continue to pick punchier one as original, then I will get mostly wrong results. Indeed, I got mostly wrong results. It would seems my E30 indeed have problems.

 

[solderdude]

Your E30 cannot be inverted. The serial number clearly indicates this.

Do NOT trust your hearing as a measurement device. If you really want to know it must be measured.
All you need is a laptop or PC with line-in and a test signal.

What you are perceiving can NOT be trusted.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Your E30 cannot be inverted. The serial number clearly indicates this.

Do NOT trust your hearing as a measurement device. If you really want to know it must be measured.
All you need is a laptop or PC with line-in and a test signal.

What you are perceiving can NOT be trusted.

99% confidence and can't be trusted? What do you need? 99.9999% result with blind tests?