Topping E30 DAC Review

[Pdxwayne]

Check with your speakers and see if you hear them the opposite way than your headphones or with the Gustard. If what was once original now sounds like inverted, that might mean the phase is.inverted on the RCA output. If it sounds the same as with the gustard, then phase is not the culprit

Edit:
Just now, I was using my phone to do the test to see if I can pass test. Next will be with e30 and headphones. Then, if no issue, will be with speakers. Thanks!

 

[companyja]

You should check and see whether the speaker out will have inverted polarity compared to the headphone out. In either case, polarity inversion will not create an incredible "bass difference". If you think the E30 sounds different it's easy enough to sell it on, but unless you get someone to volume match it and ABX it, there's no real reason for anyone else to believe the difference exists. I think most people here have at some point experienced very noticable differences that magically disappeared once they tried ABX-ing properly. I know I magically heard the huge difference between my old Sansa Clip+ and the Fiio X1 that was a good bargain at the time until I plugged the Clip+ back in and it sounded almost the same - and this was with a big pause while I unplug it and plug it into something else and I can see my hands doing it, so not even a proper ABX. And those two devices actually verifiably perform very differently, the Clip+ has a crosstalk of something funny like -35dB

 

[Pdxwayne]

You should check and see whether the speaker out will have inverted polarity compared to the headphone out. In either case, polarity inversion will not create an incredible "bass difference". If you think the E30 sounds different it's easy enough to sell it on, but unless you get someone to volume match it and ABX it, there's no real reason for anyone else to believe the difference exists. I think most people here have at some point experienced very noticable differences that magically disappeared once they tried ABX-ing properly. I know I magically heard the huge difference between my old Sansa Clip+ and the Fiio X1 that was a good bargain at the time until I plugged the Clip+ back in and it sounded almost the same - and this was with a big pause while I unplug it and plug it into something else and I can see my hands doing it, so not even a proper ABX. And those two devices actually verifiably perform very differently, the Clip+ has a crosstalk of something funny like -35dB

I did volume matched blind test between E30 and KTB before, but I never did pay attention to bass as I was only using bookshelf.

But, when using headphones with L30, the bass is incredible with x16. E30 still have very good bass, but can't do incredible headphones shaking effects as well as x16.

 

[companyja]

Given that the E30 and the x16 in single-ended both have around 2Vrms, there is no mechanical reason for the driver to move more with input from one DAC than the other. As long as you use the same amplifier, the driver will not shake more or less on the same volume unless the frequency response has changed, which as far as I know would only happen with non-linear behavior. Both DACs measure perfectly on linearity and I'm sure the frequency response is ruler-flat in the audible range. You either have one broken DAC or the most likely culrpit being improper volume matching. Even 0.1-0.2dB is enough to feel an incredible difference if you're already pushing the headphones very loudly. In amir's tests, the E30 outputs some 0.05Vrms more than the x16 in single-ended mode - even this creates a volume imbalance on an amp like the L30 which scales up to 3+Vrms with its conservative gain levels, provided you're just using the same level on the volume-pot on whatever amplifier you're using to compare.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Given that the E30 and the x16 in single-ended both have around 2Vrms, there is no mechanical reason for the driver to move more with input from one DAC than the other. As long as you use the same amplifier, the driver will not shake more or less on the same volume unless the frequency response has changed, which as far as I know would only happen with non-linear behavior. Both DACs measure perfectly on linearity and I'm sure the frequency response is ruler-flat in the audible range. You either have one broken DAC or the most likely culrpit being improper volume matching. Even 0.1-0.2dB is enough to feel an incredible difference if you're already pushing the headphones very loudly.

I understand about volume matching. The issue is that no matter how loud I went (until the highs got too harsh), I couldn't get "insane" sub bass out of E30. I could do that with X16. Yes, I love bass. : )

Same with my stereo setup with twin subs. With E30, I can't get good, clean sofa shaking effect. With x16, I could.

BTW, this was how I got 5 out of 5 in the phase listening test using my phone and headphones. I listened for which have a little cleaner, punchier sound. Thus, I mentioned bass differences.

Will try the test using my laptop and e30 soon and report back.

 

[half_dog]

I understand about volume matching. The issue is that no matter how loud I went (until the highs got too harsh), I couldn't get "insane" sub bass out of E30. I could do that with X16. Yes, I love bass. : )

Same with my stereo setup with twin subs. With E30, I can't get good, clean sofa shaking effect. With x16, I could.

BTW, this was how I got 5 out of 5 in the phase listening test using my phone and headphones. I listened for which have a little cleaner, punchier sound. Thus, I mentioned bass differences.

Will try the test using my laptop and e30 soon and report back.

I might be saying BS but maybe the filters applied can make some difference. Whe I got my E30 I did some listening sessions to test the filters options and was possible to notice something different at the bass notes and its attacks. Gustard X16 L fast and E30 filter # 3 seems similar, try to setup both on that and go for a new test

 

[solderdude]

Thanks!

How would you describe the hearing sensation of phase issue?

I don't hear it when using headphones setup. But with stereo speakers setup, when using E30, certain notes (loud high bagpipes notes) would feel like they are playing very close to both ears. With X16, same notes would appear on a stage in front of me.

The first question would be is your E30 serial number starting with a serial number below 2004**** ?

 

[Pdxwayne]

I might be saying BS but maybe the filters applied can make some difference. Whe I got my E30 I did some listening sessions to test the filters options and was possible to notice something different at the bass notes and its attacks. Gustard X16 L fast and E30 filter # 3 seems similar, try to setup both on that and go for a new test

Haha, only the first time running tests (https://www.audiocheck.net/blindtests_abspolarity.php) this morning with my phone I could easily hear differences. Now it is hard for me to distinguish bass cleanliness and punch, using E30 with headphones, and even using my same phone again.....

Will see my hearing get better later tonight.

: )

 

[Pdxwayne]

The first question would be is your E30 serial number starting with a serial number below 2004**** ?

It starts with 2009.

 

[solderdude]

It starts with 2009.

Then you do not have the absolute phase issue.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Then you do not have the absolute phase issue.

This is my understanding too. Is there an absolutely correct, but easy, way to confirm I have no issue?

 

[solderdude]

The serial number above 2009 is the way to confirm.
Topping had to make physical changes to the board to get rid of this (non)issue.
From 2004 and up all boards are the new boards and can not (and do not) have this issue.

 

[Pdxwayne]

The serial number above 2009 is the way to confirm.
Topping had to make physical changes to the board to get rid of this (non)issue.
From 2004 and up all boards are the new boards and can not (and do not) have this issue.

"trust but verify"......

Other than serial number, anything else easy I can do to verify?

Thanks!

 

[solderdude]

You can measure impulse response and see if the impulse points upwards... assuming your ADC is not phase inverted though.

I don't believe Topping is putting 'old' boards in DAC's 6 months after they stopped making those boards.
Oh wait ... we found a batch of old boards that we shouldn't use and weren't trashed... lets put them randomly in some E30's ... owners can't hear it anyway so why not use them...

Nahh not going to happen.

 

[nerone]

I bought from amazon if someone changed the label of the
serial number how do i know what the updated card is from inside the box?

 

[solderdude]

then you open up the DAC and look for the PCB revision number.

 

[Pdxwayne]

then you open up the DAC and look for the PCB revision number.

It would seem it would be easier for me to open it up than running tests?

What revision number should I check for? Old vs new?

Thanks!

 

[solderdude]

You don't need to check it at all.
To get to the number you have to take it really far apart (without damaging it) as the number is close to the front panel.

The part in the red circle should be 2004xx or higher.

As said it is extremely unlikely there is an old board inside a 2009*** DAC.
Does it seem like the E30 has been tampered with ? Does the serial number look fraudulent ?

 

[nerone]

here is a photo, unfortunately I can not extract the card, you see a serial number inside.
Cosa ne pensi?

 

[Pdxwayne]

You don't need to check it at all.
To get to the number you have to take it really far apart (without damaging it) as the number is close to the front panel.
View attachment 111535
The part in the red circle should be 2004xx or higher.

As said it is extremely unlikely there is an old board inside a 2009*** DAC.
Does it seem like the E30 has been tampered with ? Does the serial number look fraudulent ?

My memory is not that good. I remember for one of the topping products I received, the contents did not feel "fresh from factory".

But the E30 itself looks OK. Label looks OK.

Thanks!