Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[nhs]

Well, I am an unfortunate guy that can hear the difference in cables and I have tested numerous of them in years before I ended up in Nordost. So I will keep them.
Unfortunately too, SMSL500 and D90 do not sound they same, they are WAY different, I am sorry.
In general I trust my ears but I have the most ultimate judge/tester of all: My wife (and lately my daughter). She has no idea what a DAC is but she can understand the difference in no time... I sometimes have her do the blind tests (She will do the DACs for sure), sometimes I tell her nothing. For example when I changed the Symphonic Lines KRAFT power Amps with thew new ones, she looked at me and said WOW! that sounds amazing..
Anyway, I will give it time and of course many many tests - in any case I enjoy the process

Wow my respect, I whish I had your ears to hear the difference between decent cables and your fancy expensive cables. You hear a better stage extension with wider width and height from the SMSL M500, a DAC with high 3rd harmonic distortion (SINAD down to 70-80db) than from D90SE. I'm wondering if it makes sense that we are sticking our noses in a scientific forum such as ASR.

 

[raif71]

Wow my respect, I whish I had your ears to hear the difference between decent cables and your fancy expensive cables. You hear a better stage extension with wider width and height from the SMSL M500, a DAC with high 3rd harmonic distortion (SINAD down to 70-80db) than from D90SE. I'm wondering if it makes sense that we are sticking our noses in a scientific forum such ASR.

Sinad of the M500 is 117 (at least the SMSL M500 xlr) as shown in this chart
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dphone-amp.25150/#lg=attachment142836&slide=0
I am aware of the 3rd harmonic thread but as far as measurement goes, the 117 Sinad is in accordance with standard DAC measurements here in ASR, right ?

 

[Harmonie]

I have the d90se hooked up to a pre90 and it adds alot to the sound stage. They were made for each other.

Sure both the pre90 and D90se are well together.
Now did you ever try the D90se in preamp mode directly connected to your power-amp?
Means you control the volume via the D90se.
Unless it has a huge impedance mismatch, I wonder if you hear any difference.

 

[nhs]

Sinad of the M500 is 117 (at least the SMSL M500 xlr) as shown in this chart
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...dphone-amp.25150/#lg=attachment142836&slide=0
I am aware of the 3rd harmonic thread but as far as measurement goes, the 117 Sinad is in accordance with standard DAC measurements here in ASR, right ?

That's the standard measurement of @amirm if you feed same signals like mono to both channels. But if you feed different signals (stereo) to left and right channel, the 3rd harmonic distortion is measured so high, see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ange-smsl-m500-high-3rd-harmonic.22710/page-4 post #70, the measurement from @WolfX-700 .

 

[Eddy H.]

Sure both the pre90 and D90se are well together.
Now did you ever try the D90se in preamp mode directly connected to your power-amp?
Means you control the volume via the D90se.
Unless it has a huge impedance mismatch, I wonder if you hear any difference.

I have and the over all presentation is better. My amp has a 50k ohm inputs, maybe that has something to do with it. I also run my subs off the RCA outputs of the pre90. It works great. I don't think the d90se was really intended to be used as a pre amp. Maybe we can ask @JohnYang1997 about it.

 

[nelamvr6]

Well, I had to do it, I ordered an D90SE to replace my current DAC, a D90 MQA. I know that the D90 MQA was already about as transparent as a DAC can get, but those extra 3 db of SINAD are just too tempting to resist!

After I placed my order, I went to Topping's website and downloaded the manual. I discovered that Topping did indeed address my only real complaint with the D90 MQA by providing an auto shut off mode for the OLED display. Kudos and thanks Topping for listening!

Now comes the hard part, waiting for Apos to get my new toy to me...

 

[raif71]

That's the standard measurement of @amirm if you feed same signals like mono to both channels. But if you feed different signals (stereo) to left and right channel, the 3rd harmonic distortion is measured so high, see https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ange-smsl-m500-high-3rd-harmonic.22710/page-4 post #70, the measurement from @WolfX-700 .

Yes, I already told you that I'm aware of that thread but as it is, the chart remains and the method measurements are fair for all DACs, just so happens that someone found this on one particular DAC (or two). To be fair, then all DACs should undergo the stereo signals like you mentioned but I don't think that's gonna happen and that is why the chart stands which is 117 Sinad for SMSL M500.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I have and the over all presentation is better. My amp has a 50k ohm inputs, maybe that has something to do with it. I also run my subs off the RCA outputs of the pre90. It works great. I don't think the d90se was really intended to be used as a pre amp. Maybe we can ask @JohnYang1997 about it.

D90se should work fine directly to the power amp. And it should give very good results given the noise floor is finally low enough to not add extra noise. Pre90 should give more SNR at lower level. But D90se works just fine and perhaps better close to max level. 4V mode gives a little bit lower output noise.

 

[hexxpunk]

Has anyone's display started to do this? It does it on every screen, but the line is not consistent. It almost seems like there is a font error.

 

[Eddy H.]

Has anyone's display started to do this? It does it on every screen, but the line is not consistent. It almost seems like there is a font error.

View attachment 149036

Mine doesn't do that.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Has anyone's display started to do this? It does it on every screen, but the line is not consistent. It almost seems like there is a font error.

View attachment 149036

Ask your seller for a replacement.

 

[Eddy H.]

D90se should work fine directly to the power amp. And it should give very good results given the noise floor is finally low enough to not add extra noise. Pre90 should give more SNR at lower level. But D90se works just fine and perhaps better close to max level. 4V mode gives a little bit lower output noise.

So you recommend using 4v into my Pre90 then?

 

[DHT 845]

I just have received my DAC and I am a little disappointed.

i owned till now a "half the price of D90SE" DAC and I was very satisfied. I am an audio enthusiast for more than 30 years. Till recently I didn't give much attention to digital world, since always seemed dull compared to my analogue sources.
Lately seeing the highres audio etc, started to look into it to see if I can get decent sound from digital sources. I found out that things are really getting better, so I bought a lot of hires music (i prefer to have it than streaming). I was quite happy with the outcome, even if analogue is still better but I could now listen with pleasure to digital audio. My previous DAC has as said half of the price of D90SE.
Since I try always to upgrade my audio, I decided based on the reviews here to buy the D90SE. A very disappointing experience, expected a lot more. I was balancing if I will write this post but I decided to do it, even if I am expecting flame...

So let's start.
System accompanying the DAC: Nordost SPM reference cables (tried also OCC Oyaide and Neotech), Symphonic Line RG-3 turbo preamp, 1 KW pure Class A monoblocks, Magnepan 3.6, Focal Aria 948 and Focal Grand Utopia.

Good things:
Quiet: The quietest solution ever! It is THAT quiet that you think your ears have problem.
Detail: Yes, there is detail, unquestionably. In certain areas of the frequency ranges there is more detail than my current DAC.
Bass: A LOT of control. It never looses control. Good extend.
Stage: You can tell the very exact instrument/organ position. Too much focus and precision. Best I have ever heard in digital.
Filters: They do make difference #3, gives more treble and better voices but reduces a little sharpness of stage
IMD: This DAC produces the cleanest sound when a lot of organs play together. Excellent, you can listen to metal and rock with no fatigue.

Bad things:
Stage: The stage does not have the proper extent. In my setup, normally the extend of the stage is more than 4 meters. Somehow, it was shrunk a little. However, as I said had the best precision. Another thing was that precision in depth was not so good as in width and height.
Live experience: I couldn't get persuaded that I had a live stage experience. Curiously enough my cheaper DAC does.
Voices: Female voices lacked the proper warmth that sometimes have in certain songs and they got a little "far", this gets together with the "live experience" issue
Fading: I noticed that sometimes notes are not properly fading away, especially when they have tremolo and at the same time fade away, an effect like a compression thing. This is important to me for a hi end experience, since my SE Class A amplifiers manage not to loose these fading notes when are there and this feature is exquisite to my ears.


The above was a three day test so far, I will listen to the DAC a lot more and see what happens. It seems I will search for an even better DAC. Don't misunderstand me, it is a great DAC but it was not what I expected to be, based on the reviews.

Good to read that there are dissenters here that hear cable differences. Majority on ASR do not hear the difference between Nordost and Cardas. Hard to believe but true. I suggest to try topping d70s DAC on double AKM chips. BTW I own nordost cables as well (odin interconnects)...

 

[JohnYang1997]

So you recommend using 4v into my Pre90 then?

With Pre90, 5V is recommended.

 

[glc650]

With Pre90, 5V is recommended.

Should the D90SE be set to 5v using another pre-amp (Marantz SR8012 AVR with outboard amps) or does that only apply when using it with the Pre90?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Should the D90SE be set to 5v using another pre-amp (Marantz SR8012 AVR with outboard amps) or does that only apply when using it with the Pre90?

To my knowledge no other preamp has significantly lower noise than D90se. So unless you are experiencing pop sound, D90se itself is all you need.
If you still want to use other preamps, 4V is a safer option so the down stream devices won't be overdriven or cause higher distortion. You can try both and choose the one you prefer.

 

[Sisay]

I have the impression that when playing music on a tidal, there is a slight jump in the sound at times, literally sounding like a distortion, I exclude a given track - I rewound a few times and if it appears at a different time than before. Do you have that too?

 

[nelamvr6]

My new DAC arrived today. I ordered it on 8/22/2021, and it was delivered to me in Connecticut today, 8/25/2021. That's 12,873 km in three days. Color me impressed!

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

My new DAC arrived today. I ordered it on 8/22/2021, and it was delivered to me in Connecticut today, 8/25/2021. That's 12,873 km in three days. Color me impressed!

That's wild! Where did you buy it from?

 

[nelamvr6]

That's wild! Where did you buy it from?

Apos Audio