Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[Eddy H.]

Apos Audio

Mine only took 33 days to get from Apos. Lol

 

[Sisay]

Loving this DAC! My god the detail, the transarancy. Simply fantastic. (Especially with Dirac room correction) ... But I am having a problem with what seems like buffer errors since upgrading to the latest driver (v 5.2) for Windows 10. When I use Windows WASAPI I get that digital 'skipping sound' errors, but when I switch to the ASIO driver it stops. I'm using a USB connection and never had this buffer problem before on my home-built ASUS i5 computer... Any ideas? (Remember I am running everything through Dirac's Windows standalone Processor. (WDM). - Thanks for any help. ---- P.S. I actually have 2 similar systems and this issue does not happen on the other one. WASAPI works on the other system. (Windows Exclusive).

Yesterday I wrote:
I have the impression that when playing music on a tidal, there is a slight jump in the sound at times, literally sounding like a distortion, I exclude a given track - I rewound a few times and if it appears at a different time than before. Do you have that too?

Same driver, could this be the same problem you have?

 

[rlwings]

Yesterday I wrote:
I have the impression that when playing music on a tidal, there is a slight jump in the sound at times, literally sounding like a distortion, I exclude a given track - I rewound a few times and if it appears at a different time than before. Do you have that too?

Same driver, could this be the same problem you have?

Yes, your problem sounds like mine. I wonder if anybody else is experiencing issues with the new 5.2 ASIO driver being used in Windows in WDM mode? (I am also streaming Tidal and up-sampling to 24\176.4 over USB on a fast computer) Everything worked fine with the previous driver.

 

[Barryfromholland]

Same problem here with Samsung tv 2020 the frame. Frequent drop outs via optical. HDMI is NOT possible. Via bluesound node 2021 no problem with optical input, also MQA. TV output via Node HDMI no problems.
Waiting for usb output update for Node.
Topping d90se Balanced output sounds better than Bluesound node internal dac.

 

[f1shb0n3]

I'm doing an A/B comparison of Topping D90 vs D90SE using a transparent XLR switch connected to Topping D30 A30 Pro headphone amplifier and I hear volume differences between them at the same voltage measured with a multimeter. The closest I could get their output voltage (with digital attenuation of source signal of D90SE of -0.1dB), measured at XLR output converted to RCA and into a multimeter is D90 at 2.01 volts and D90SE at 2 volts and I'm certain that D90SE sounds a bit louder with music and clearly audible with 1kHz sine. This makes it hard to compare sound quality, I wonder could output impedance difference be responsible for that? D90SE specs state 100Ω output impedance, but could not find info for D90.
Is there a good way to measure or calculate what voltage I need for precise volume matching between both when connected to D30 A30 Pro so I can do a proper A/B comparison?
@JohnYang1997 - I'd appreciate your input as the omnipresent helpful Topping expert here!

Edit: Yes, I meant A30 Pro not D30 Pro.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I'm doing an A/B comparison of Topping D90 vs D90SE using a transparent XLR switch connected to Topping D30 Pro headphone amplifier and I hear volume differences between them at the same voltage measured with a multimeter. The closest I could get their output voltage (with digital attenuation of source signal of D90SE of -0.1dB), measured at XLR output converted to RCA and into a multimeter is D90 at 2.01 volts and D90SE at 2 volts and I'm certain that D90SE sounds a bit louder with music and clearly audible with 1kHz sine. This makes it hard to compare sound quality, I wonder could output impedance difference be responsible for that? D90SE specs state 100Ω output impedance, but could not find info for D90.
Is there a good way to measure or calculate what voltage I need for precise volume matching between both when connected to D30 Pro so I can do a proper A/B comparison?
@JohnYang1997 - I'd appreciate your input as the omnipresent helpful Topping expert here!

You can try measure at the output of A30pro(I think this is what you meant). The 4pin XLR and the 6.35mm are wired directly together so you can measure either output and match the voltage this way.

 

[rlwings]

@JohnYang1997 Do the 4v and 5v XLR output settings on the D90SE translate to proportional voltage changes to the RCA outputs as well? - I've been using the 5v setting but I am using the RCA outputs to my Marantz Model 30 integrated amp. Will this pose any danger to the preamp inside my amp? I don't hear any distortion and the amp sounds punchier at the higher voltage.

 

[f1shb0n3]

You can try measure at the output of A30pro(I think this is what you meant). The 4pin XLR and the 6.35mm are wired directly together so you can measure either output and match the voltage this way.

Thanks, this worked great! Now I'm finally struggling to hear the differences between both (as expected), but will keep trying

 

[JohnYang1997]

@JohnYang1997 Do the 4v and 5v XLR output settings on the D90SE translate to proportional voltage changes to the RCA outputs as well? - I've been using the 5v setting but I am using the RCA outputs to my Marantz Model 30 integrated amp. Will this pose any danger to the preamp inside my amp? I don't hear any distortion and the amp sounds punchier at the higher voltage.

1, Yes.
2, Usually no. But...I just check on the manual of Marantz Model 30, it only takes in 220mV for the line input. So I'm not sure. If you hear any difference after volume matching(you have to volume match), then it must be distortion from the preamp.

 

[rlwings]

1, Yes.
2, Usually no. But...I just check on the manual of Marantz Model 30, it only takes in 220mV for the line input. So I'm not sure. If you hear any difference after volume matching(you have to volume match), then it must be distortion from the preamp.

Thanks John... So are you saying that I should use the 4v setting with my Marantz amp? Or that it doesn't matter? - I only 'think' I'm hearing a volume increase. I'm probably imagining it.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks John... So are you saying that I should use the 4v setting with my Marantz amp? Or that it doesn't matter? - I only 'think' I'm hearing a volume increase.

If 4V works then I don't think we need to worry further. But according to the spec, you probably should attenuate 30dB on the DAC.
I suggest direct connecting D90se to the power amp section.

 

[rlwings]

If 4V works then I don't think we need to worry further. But according to the spec, you probably should attenuate 30dB on the DAC.
I suggest direct connecting D90se to the power amp section.

Thanks John! - So since I'm new at this please let me ask you how to do this... You mean I should use the DAC's preamp and set it to a certain value? - So how do I then change volume after decreasing to 30db? - Could you please tell me what to do. Thank you very much.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks John! - So since I'm new at this please let me ask you how to do this... You mean I should use the DAC's preamp and set it to a certain value? - So how do I then change volume after decreasing to 30db? - Could you please tell me what to do. Thank you very much.

Ok forget the second part about connect directly.

What I meant was according to Marantz's spec, theoretically you probably should attenuate the DAC 30dB-40dB before going to the preamp.

 

[rlwings]

Ok forget the second part about connect directly.

What I meant was according to Marantz's spec, theoretically you probably should attenuate the DAC 30dB-40dB before going to the preamp.

Thanks for clarifying John... So you mean 'theoretically' not that I would actually do it, right? - So then what would be your final recommendation with the D90SE and the Marantz Model 30? - Use the DAC's preamp or Marantz preamp? 4v or 5 v? - Thanks, and I won't ask anymore questions tonight. (Toronto Canada)

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thanks for clarifying John... So you mean 'theoretically' not that I would actually do it, right? - So then what would be your final recommendation with the D90SE and the Marantz Model 30? - Use the DAC's preamp or Marantz preamp? 4v or 5 v? - Thanks, and I won't ask anymore questions tonight. (Toronto Canada)

Without actually measuring it, I wouldn't have a definitive answer.
In the end if you can enjoy the music with the system then it's not doing it wrong.

 

[netcipher]

Topping D90SE Disassemble

https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1624709833.A.2B5.html
https://translate.google.com/transl....ptt.cc/bbs/Headphone/M.1624709833.A.2B5.html

 

[glc650]

By default this DAC is set to output RCA and XLR simultaneously. What's the use case for this feature? Is there any disadvantage to leaving it on this default setting?

 

[enricoclaudio]

Lets say you want to use the D90SE as a pre amp with a subwoofer in your system. Use XLR to send signal to the speaker's amp or active monitors and RCA to the subwoofer. There is no disadvantage to leave it that way even if you use XLR or RCA only.

 

[rlwings]

Hey guys, I have 2 questions for the community:

(1) Can I use an adapter on the XLR outputs of the D90SE to turn them into another set of RCA's to go to my subwoofer's amp. Would the voltage be too high for this purpose, or will the voltage be controlled by the Dac's preamp volume? (In other words just using the first half of the DAC's volume control?)

(2) I see that the DAC's ASIO driver now allows for 24 or 32 bit. Is there any value\downfall in choosing 32 bit? - I'm using Dirac room correction in the audio chain which I think runs at 24 bit. Would choosing 32 bit just upscale the audio without any degradation? Or would it make an Improvement?

Thanks for your help and expertise guys.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Hey guys, I have 2 questions for the community:

(1) Can I use an adapter on the XLR outputs of the D90SE to turn them into another set of RCA's to go to my subwoofer's amp. Would the voltage be too high for this purpose, or will the voltage be controlled by the Dac's preamp volume? (In other words just using the first half of the DAC's volume control?)

(2) I see that the DAC's ASIO driver now allows for 24 or 32 bit. Is there any value\downfall in choosing 32 bit? - I'm using Dirac room correction in the audio chain which I think runs at 24 bit. Would choosing 32 bit just upscale the audio without any degradation? Or would it make an Improvement?

Thanks for your help and expertise guys.

Why not use the RCA outs directly from the D90SE to send signal to the subwoofer(s)? You can have both, XLR + RCA Outs active in the D90SE. If you have 2 subwoofers, then send left signal to the subwoofer on the left and right signal to the subwoofer on the right.