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Fosi Audio ZD3 Balanced DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 4 1.4%

  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 6 2.1%

  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 74 25.7%

  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 204 70.8%
  • Total voters
    288
obsessive9119 said:
If you’re using optical out, I’d have thought that the PC soundcard isn’t really going to affect things unless it’s faulty.
Click to expand...

The Realtek drivers are amongst the worst; the XMOS interface is used by all DACs because it's a very powerful and stable USB audio interface.
I have the ZD3 connected to the integrated Realtek ALC1220P via optical cable and it sucks.

I never use it of course but I keep the drivers updated and I have tested it again just now.
Somehow it's even worse.

I use foobar and was working with WASAPI and the Default driver. Now it doesn't, no output.
Output works with the ASIO driver which is really messy.
Never changes rate from 44.1kHz, no matter what is set from the ASIO driver, if it's DoP64/128, or set in the Realtek control panel.
Plus is very choppy with frequent drop-outs... had to restart foobar many times.
If you load a file with an unsupported rate the ASIO driver will get stuck and complain about it for every other file.

The quality of the Realtek driver also depends on the motherboard OEM so it may vary wildly.
But in general it's better to try the XMOS driver, should at least improve the quality of life.
 
rwdv70 said:
The Keilidhs were inherited from my father, who passed away some time ago. He also left me a Node 2, a Denon DCD-1600NE, and a Japanese Triode TRV-A300SE tube amp. After many years without having any system in the living room, I finally made space to set up all his equipment. My brother received some Devialet Phantoms, by the way (though my wife didn’t allow me to go for those). The Triode amplifier, delivering 8 Watts in class A, was very clear and transparent but lacked bass depth. So, I brought out my old Audiomat Solfège tube amplifier from the attic The Audiomat is a "beast"—extremely heavy and has no trouble driving the Keilidhs.

The Node 2 is a decent streamer, and with Spotify Connect, I can easily use my laptop phone. I plan to switch to Qobuz once they launch their Connect service for Bluesound devices. My first upgrade was acquiring a new DAC. Initially, I tried my old Keces DA-131 DAC but decided to upgrade anyway. The Fosi DAC meets all my requirements: affordable, compact, and high-quality. In the upgrade path, the Keilidhs will likely be replaced next. I also have an old pair of Elipson 1303s eating dust in the attic but I am inclined to invest in something more modern. I was particularly impressed with the Radiant Acoustics speakers at the local HiFi Klubben store., I may also upgrade the amplifier, possibly to a Nilai or even some inexpensive Fosi mono blocks.

I do not plan to upgrade the power supply or change the op-amps of the ZD3. I cannot hear any difference, and, if anything, it might degrade the performance.
Click to expand...
Way off topic again, but the Keilidh's when properly active, have but one flaw, the D'Apolito tweeter setting leaves it firing into the listener's knees if one is sat too close, but the overall balance from 3m or more back is very natural in active form, especially if tri-amped. Passive and bi-wired or not, the midrange does a disappearing act (we had passive and active sets ready to go). Passive Keilidhs are pretty much three to four ohm speakers in the bass and midrange, so do take that into account when setting transformer tappings. There's a review in one of the HiFi Choice mags from the mid to late 90s, saved on the worldradiohistory site UK pages of HiFi Choice (I think it's a 1997 issue but can't remember and this laptop is painfully slow to load the huge pdfs).

Page 45 - https://www.worldradiohistory.com/UK/Hi-Fi-Choice/1995-1999/Hi-Fi-Choice-138.pdf - There's some other speaker tests done with what may be ancestors of current models. The reviewer was a lovely hippy type man but mostly subjectively based (to earn his living). Not an 'ego' as his colleagues could be in various magazines he wrote for.


Anyway, hope the OP gets the dac situation sorted out to their satisfaction :)
 
Last edited:
ManniX said:
The Realtek drivers are amongst the worst; the XMOS interface is used by all DACs because it's a very powerful and stable USB audio interface.
I have the ZD3 connected to the integrated Realtek ALC1220P via optical cable and it sucks.

I never use it of course but I keep the drivers updated and I have tested it again just now.
Somehow it's even worse.

I use foobar and was working with WASAPI and the Default driver. Now it doesn't, no output.
Output works with the ASIO driver which is really messy.
Never changes rate from 44.1kHz, no matter what is set from the ASIO driver, if it's DoP64/128, or set in the Realtek control panel.
Plus is very choppy with frequent drop-outs... had to restart foobar many times.
If you load a file with an unsupported rate the ASIO driver will get stuck and complain about it for every other file.

The quality of the Realtek driver also depends on the motherboard OEM so it may vary wildly.
But in general it's better to try the XMOS driver, should at least improve the quality of life.
Click to expand...
I think you should run the app (Tidal or Qobuz) in "exclusive mode" to get 'bitperfect' output to the DAC.
 
rwdv70 said:
I think you should run the app (Tidal or Qobuz) in "exclusive mode" to get 'bitperfect' output to the DAC.
Click to expand...
Not really sure how it's relevant but anyway there's no real "bitperfect" going thru the Windows mixer; that's why there's ASIO.
WASAPI Shared is close enough in my opinion and much easier to use than any exclusive mode.

My worsening of the optical output from the Realtek on-board audio was due to the ZD3 firmware 1.0.8; it's flat out incompatible.
It doesn't even work that well with 1.0.6 to which I have down-graded now.
But at least it works in most cases with a few drop-outs and crashes/instabilities in foobar.
More or less like before except that still doesn't work with DirectSound, only with WASAPI and ASIO.

The audio quality with WASAPI is good in general, on ASIO seems to pass thru a grinder. Absolutely awful.
 
Hi everybody,
Could this DAC (and generally any 12v device) benefit from being powered by 12v battery instead of a AC/DC power supply?
Is it possible for a power supply to introduce noise or hum?

Konstantinos
 
Konstantinos said:
Could this DAC (and generally any 12v device) benefit from being powered by 12v battery instead of a AC/DC power supply?
Is it possible for a power supply to introduce noise or hum?
Click to expand...

Yes a PSU can introduce noise. But generally only if you a have a bad AC at home.
Using batteries and a laptop is generally a setup for measurements.

Here below the ZD3 with his PSU, nothing special, the arrow points at the AC noise coming through the PSU/environment.

1750879545491.png


I think it's at -128dB. It's well below any audible range so in general doesn't make sense to fix it.
Running the DAC thru a battery is more likely just a self inflict torture.
 
@Konstantinos

There are better ways to spend money to improve the audio quality, in a measurable way, and obtain the above.
High quality audio cables is the most important, I use RCA and bought these SKW cables, top notch:


For XLR the Mogami with Neutrik connector, again top notch:


If you intend to use USB an high quality cable is crucial to filter most of the noise:


Probably 2 of them because you also want a USB isolator filter:


This will bring you at that level of quality.
It will be already expensive enough to have you forget about the PSU....
 
ManniX said:
@Konstantinos

There are better ways to spend money to improve the audio quality, in a measurable way, and obtain the above.
High quality audio cables is the most important, I use RCA and bought these SKW cables, top notch:


For XLR the Mogami with Neutrik connector, again top notch:


If you intend to use USB an high quality cable is crucial to filter most of the noise:


Probably 2 of them because you also want a USB isolator filter:


This will bring you at that level of quality.
It will be already expensive enough to have you forget about the PSU....
Click to expand...
Thank you for your suggestions, all those seem excellent choices!
 
Konstantinos said:
Thank you for your suggestions, all those seem excellent choices!
Click to expand...

You do not need expensive cables. Just cables that are well made and work.

I use these and I've never had any issues:

RCA cables $6.29


Optical Toslink cable $5.85


USB A to B cable $6.98


Coax audio cable $8.99


Banana plug speaker cables $11.99


These are all used with my Fosi ZD3.

USB A to B cable for digital out from an Eversolo DMP-A6 to the ZD3 USB B input.
Toslink optical cable from a Waxwing Phono DSP to the ZD3 optical input
Coax audio cable from an Audiolab 6000CDT (CD transport) to the ZD3 coax input
RCA stereo cables from the ZD3 to a pair of Fosi V3 mono amps
Banana plug speaker cables from the ZD3 to Klipsh Heresy IV speakers
 
Brian Hall said:
You do not need expensive cables. Just cables that are well made and work.
Click to expand...

You don't need expensive cables to make it work.
But if you want that audio quality from my screenshot, yes you need it.

I bought all kind of cheap but decent cables and they were all terrible. Audio and USB.
Measured terrible not aesthetics.
Spent 8€, 10€, 20€, €30,... all "working" but ranging from introducing a lot of noise to just a bit.
What's the point of spending 30€ for an average cable RCA cable when you can get an SKW for 40€ which is pure perfection?

You can definitely get away with a much less expensive USB cable, especially before the USB isolator.
But again, there wasn't much price difference considering the whole budget and the Tertullus is rock solid on reliability.

As said, that's a way to spend a lot of money to improve the audio quality, not strictly necessary.
Obviously, ignorance is a bliss. Don't buy anything to measure it or you'll jump in the rabbit hole :)
 
ManniX said:
You don't need expensive cables to make it work.
But if you want that audio quality from my screenshot, yes you need it.

I bought all kind of cheap but decent cables and they were all terrible. Audio and USB.
Measured terrible not aesthetics.
Spent 8€, 10€, 20€, €30,... all "working" but ranging from introducing a lot of noise to just a bit.
What's the point of spending 30€ for an average cable RCA cable when you can get an SKW for 40€ which is pure perfection?

You can definitely get away with a much less expensive USB cable, especially before the USB isolator.
But again, there wasn't much price difference considering the whole budget and the Tertullus is rock solid on reliability.

As said, that's a way to spend a lot of money to improve the audio quality, not strictly necessary.
Obviously, ignorance is a bliss. Don't buy anything to measure it or you'll jump in the rabbit hole :)
Click to expand...

There is no audible difference between an inexpensive cable that works and an expensive cable that works. If there is even a slight measurable difference, it will be so small as to be well below the audible range.

I have never seen a need for a usb "isolator". If the source is bad enough to need an "isolator", get a better source.
 
Brian Hall said:
There is no audible difference between an inexpensive cable that works and an expensive cable that works. If there is even a slight measurable difference, it will be so small as to be well below the audible range.
Click to expand...

There is audible difference, that's why I started replacing the cables. The noise was very much audible.
That's also why I bought the audio interface to test and confirm it.

If you use a laptop and don't connect it to the AC, yes you probably don't need a USB isolator.
Otherwise you probably do, the noise coming from all PC motherboards is staggering.
There's no other way, no "better" source, except using an optical cable.
 
ManniX said:
There is audible difference, that's why I started replacing the cables. The noise was very much audible.
That's also why I bought the audio interface to test and confirm it.

If you use a laptop and don't connect it to the AC, yes you probably don't need a USB isolator.
Otherwise you probably do, the noise coming from all PC motherboards is staggering.
There's no other way, no "better" source, except using an optical cable.
Click to expand...

I switch between using an Acer Chromebook Plus with an Intel I3 cpu (bought last year), a Google Pixelbook Go with an Intel I5 cpu (2019), a Bmax mini pc with an Intel N100 cpu (last year) running Linux and my old gaming PC (see below) which also runs Linux now. Four very different devices. I connect the USB cable from my dac to whichever one I am using. I have never heard any noise from any of them when using usb. Totally silent when nothing is running that outputs audio.

The old gaming PC which I originally built in 2011 has an Asus motherboard from then. I have upgraded the video card nvidia 1080, Intel Core I7-3770k cpu and upgraded to 32GB of faster RAM. If any device I have was likely to produce noise, it would be that one. I just switched to it and turned the volume on the dac way up. No noise coming from the speakers even with my ear right against the speaker.

I guess I am very fortunate to have and use two different ChromeOS laptops, a cheap mini PC and a large old desktop system that don't produce any noise when connected with an inexpensive usb cable to an SMSL raw-mda1 (currently used in my office setup), a Fosi ZD3, a Schiit Modi+, a Schiit Modius or an Eversolo DAC-Z8.

The mini PC and the old desktop PC are always plugged in. The Chromebooks are plugged in when charging with no difference in noise levels when plugged in vs running on battery.

I'm sorry you have a defective device which is apparently so noisy as to require expensive cables and "isolators" to produce acceptable audio.
 
Brian Hall said:
I'm sorry you have a defective device which is apparently so noisy as to require expensive cables and "isolators" to produce acceptable audio.
Click to expand...

Look I don't want to argue with you and I can't care less.
As said before, it's a way to improve audio quality spending a lot of money which is not always needed but for sure better than a linear PSU.
After a point, very quickly, it gets below the audible level and it's just a matter of getting the measurements as the reviews for Amir.
I thought it was clear and obvious...

I don't have any defective device, it's just how it works. My source is a massive workstation, big like a fridge, with multiple PSUs inside.
Obviously I'm an edge case and a normal PC isn't that noisy,
But as I said all of them are noisy; you probably are not sensible enough to hear it.
If you really think your old gaming PC is super clean, provide the measurements to back it up.
Could be you are the luckiest person in the world but I doubt it sorry :)

Brian Hall said:
I just switched to it and turned the volume on the dac way up. No noise coming from the speakers even with my ear right against the speaker.
Click to expand...

Ehm, it's digital audio, not vinyl... you have to actually play something Hi-Res, hi-quality, that you know very well, and listen if it's clean or not (small pops, clicks, distortions, etc).
 
ManniX said:
Ehm, it's digital audio, not vinyl... you have to actually play something Hi-Res, hi-quality, that you know very well, and listen if it's clean or not (small pops, clicks, distortions, etc).
Click to expand...

If a usb device is able to pass "noise", it means it is dropping, changing or adding incorrect bits. No actual audio passes through the cable so a bad device producing "noise" is sending out a corrupt stream of data. If that is the case, it would do even worse with an external usb connected drive. I've never seen anyone recommend using an expensive usb cable or usb "isolator" to connect an external drive.

Both digital audio and files being sent to an external drive are just data consisting of bits, either 0 or 1. There is nothing special about digital audio that makes those bits harder to send over a usb cable any than other data. Digitally encoded audio requires a lot less data and speed than reading or writing a file to drive. Even so called "hi-rez" audio.

I never hear any pops, clicks or distortion when listening to digital audio on any of my devices. If I did, I would know to replace the bad device with a defective usb port instead of thinking it could be fixed with a more expensive cable or "isolator".

Expensive cables and "isolators" are a scam. USB cables either pass data or they don't. They have no way of altering it. Whatever goes in one end comes out the other end.
 
Sorry but I think you have no idea what noise can do in the digital domain...

Brian Hall said:
Both digital audio and files being sent to an external drive are just data consisting of bits, either 0 or 1.
Click to expand...

This is a DAC and it's using the USB Audio Class, it's not file transfer.
Read about it, there's plenty of documentation everywhere.

1751002473506.png


1751002557631.png


Brian Hall said:
Expensive cables and "isolators" are a scam.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, there's some good stuff and they are not a scam. Search function?

I'm not a fan of expensive cables or snake oil BS, first time I'm buying good stuff actually.
Mine was a data driven decision, backed by measurements.
You are making assumptions on your subjective opinions, this says it all.
 
I apologize for this dumb question due to my lack of experience with home theater, but can I plug the HDMI output of an Apple TV 4K directly into the HDMI ARC input of the ZD3 to play Apple Music or do I need a device in between to extract the audio signal?
 
aikofan said:
to play Apple Music or do I need a device in between to extract the audio signal?
Click to expand...
You need the HDMI audio extractor or go Apple TV > TV ARC > ZD3 . The ATV isn’t a ARC device. Everything will be resampled to 48khz anyway.

Better to use an (old) iPhone or iPad and go via USBC (or lightning CCK) direct to ZD3 with the Satechi R1 remote for wireless control. This method is bit perfect

​

 
Owis said:
You need the HDMI audio extractor or go Apple TV > TV ARC > ZD3 . The ATV isn’t a ARC device. Everything will be resampled to 48khz anyway.

Better to use an (old) iPhone or iPad and go via USBC (or lightning CCK) direct to ZD3 with the Satechi R1 remote for wireless control. This method is bit perfect

​

Click to expand...
I thought that might be the case. Appreciate you confirming that.
 
I got the ZD3, sound is good, no complaint there. But I do have the following question. When I turn it off it consumes 3.5W, that is the same as running it with display turned off. I know it is not the power adapter, that uses lower power than my meter can register.

Am I doing something wrong?
 
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