Topping D30 DAC Measurement and Review

[Julf]

To me, those types of projects are interesting (thanks for sharing), especially since I don't have the skill for doing something like that.

Even if they don't accomplish anything?

Would be a very interesting measurement!

Not just interesting, but essential. Anyone who actually knows what they are doing knows that unless you can verify your results, the whole exercise is pointless.

I am still confounded by upgrading a USB port ???

You wouldn't be the only one. That would probably also include the people who actually produced the USB standard...

 

[Koeitje]

I give up, this is getting too sterile about mesurements, people who have the ultimate science and so one.
I was just showing a fun project that could be made with aging gear.

Cheers.

Well if you like placebo's just do the mod? If it doesn't break anything the placebo effect should be enough to keep you satisfied.

 

[nicky]

Well if you like placebo's just do the mod? If it doesn't break anything the placebo effect should be enough to keep you satisfied.

Placebo???? now you should know that changing opamps and components will change the sound. So where is the Placebo in this?
Why are they MUSES opamps, TI.... Even Topping on the D10 put a DIP8 socket so that people can change their opamps.
You also know that caps also affect the sound.
This being said, the modding will affect the DAC, in good or bad? who knows. But don't come around saying that modding will not change the signature of an equipment.

 

[nicky]

To me, those types of projects are interesting (thanks for sharing), especially since I don't have the skill for doing something like that. Would be a very interesting measurement! I am still confounded by upgrading a USB port ???

Of course they are interesting, thanks for showing an open mind.
Audio is a hobby, where is the harm of trying things (except being called a jack ass here).
Guys mod cars, why not audio equipement?
Sure I will not go moding a 400 euros DAC but an aging 90 euros DAC why not? It still can be restored to the original state if it sounds bad.

 

[Koeitje]

Placebo???? now you should know that changing opamps and components will change the sound. So where is the Placebo in this?
Why are they MUSES opamps, TI.... Even Topping on the D10 put a DIP8 socket so that people can change their opamps.
You also know that caps also affect the sound.
This being said, the modding will affect the DAC, in good or bad? who knows. But don't come around saying that modding will not change the signature of an equipment.

Show me measurable difference within the hearing range or a nice double blind level matched test.

 

[pozz]

Placebo???? now you should know that changing opamps and components will change the sound. So where is the Placebo in this?
Why are they MUSES opamps, TI.... Even Topping on the D10 put a DIP8 socket so that people can change their opamps.
You also know that caps also affect the sound.
This being said, the modding will affect the DAC, in good or bad? who knows. But don't come around saying that modding will not change the signature of an equipment.

Hi, if you look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

Select just "Op-Amp Rolling" under Review Type and "All" under Posted By:

For capacitors, see:

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tor-upgrade-in-crossover-is-it-audible.12287/
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rade-in-crossover-is-it-audible-part-2.12447/

For resistors, see:

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-low-inductance-resistor-is-it-audible.12162/

 

[Veri]

But don't come around saying that modding will not change the signature of an equipment.

Why would we have to believe that? Do you have anything to prove your statements? It's easy to come in here and claim things, and leave the disproving to us. Words and anecdotes are not worth much.

 

[Julf]

Placebo???? now you should know that changing opamps and components will change the sound.

Not "will", but "may".

This being said, the modding will affect the DAC, in good or bad? who knows. But don't come around saying that modding will not change the signature of an equipment.

Some modding will, some won't, at least not in an audible way.

 

[Julf]

Hi, if you look here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

Select just "Op-Amp Rolling" under Review Type and "All" under Posted By:
View attachment 57767
For capacitors, see:

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tor-upgrade-in-crossover-is-it-audible.12287/
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rade-in-crossover-is-it-audible-part-2.12447/

For resistors, see:

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-low-inductance-resistor-is-it-audible.12162/

Even if something can cause measurable differences, that doesn't mean the differences are audible.

 

[Julf]

Audio is a hobby, where is the harm of trying things (except being called a jack ass here).

See the word "science" in the forum name.

Again (and again and again), modding is fine. Claiming it is beneficial, without proof, is not.

Guys mod cars, why not audio equipement?

Most car mods are cosmetic (and acknowledged to be that). Mods that claim to increase performance usually don't - all seriosu tuners verify their results with rolling roads, dynamometers and stop watches.

 

[Julf]

Do you have datum to support YOUR statement?

"Makes no difference" is the null hypothesis. The one people making claims have to disprove. You never need to prove the null hypothesis.

True, all nonsensical project, but if it improves by just the slightest fraction, it is an accomplishment.

Sure - if.

It needs the Amirm treatment. Else, we'll never know.

When even the person making the tweaks and claims has not bothered to verify the results, why should Amir waste his time?

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

I just bought one of these to connect my MiniDSP 4x10HD to my Bottlehead Crack, via SPDIF.
The D30 specs say that this DAC outputs 2.1Vrms, and the Crack should handle it fine.
I'm getting some intermittent distortion (doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when) when listening via headphones.
I hooked this up initially with SPDIF, but I could also use optical. Those are my only choices.
Unfortunately there is no USB output on the MiniDSP.

Would Optical be preferred over Coaxial? I didn't read that the USB interface on the D30 was so much better than SPDIF (oh well).
(I am not saying that this will have any effect on distortion, but trying different things)

 

[Veri]

The D30 specs say that this DAC outputs 2.1Vrms, and the Crack should handle it fine.
I'm getting some intermittent distortion (doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to when) when listening via headphones.

That's odd. The input voltage should definitely be OK. What kind of distortion? Crackling/stutter is definitely the DAC, but otherwise.. no clue what would cause it. Can you still return the D30?

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

I don't think it's the D30. I feel like it is the Headphone Amp that is connected to the D30.
The Bottlehead Crack is a kit that you build. I know my soldering skills aren't professional grade or anything.
My question to this forum is this. If I have the choice of connecting my MiniDSP to the D30 with either Coaxial SDIF or Optical, which should I use.
I'm using Coaxial SPDIF now. Generally that is the better route.
Also, I don't have any way to do any drivers or anything since the MiniDSP is not a PC or anything. I just needed to convert the digital output to analog to feed my Bottlehead Crack headphone amp.

But to answer your question, it's a crackle that only shows up when the level is turned way up on the headphone amp.
It's not there all the time either, which makes it harder to diagnose.

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

One thing I need to try is to bypass the DAC. I can temporarily re-configure the MiniDSP to send a L/R Stereo pair to the Crack directly.
Today I have had it playing all day with the same configuration (using the D30 DAC) at regular listening levels and it's sounded awesome most of the day. I think there definitely could be some interference. There is a 2-way speaker a few inches from the Crack but I don't think that's the issue. They're shielded or whatever.

Oh, and I also changed some settings on the Topping D10 DAC connected to my computer. Changed it from 32 bits to 24.

This is my first tube gear. Is there a break in (or burn in) time?
Oh, and yes it was a very fun build! Made me feel old (eyesight). Ha!
And to answer your question, no I have not tried different tubes. I did jiggle them around some today.

 

[Veri]

I was able to put a TS 5998 into recently and it sounds excellent. Very fun piece of gear.

Ohh, the 5998. Was it expensive?

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Was the 5998 a drop in replacement? Did you have to change the ciruitry at all?

 

[Veri]

Was the 5998 a drop in replacement? Did you have to change the ciruitry at all?

Starting to stray off-topic but AFAIK there's no problem dropping it in. They are just scarce and generally quite expensive replacements.

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

To get back on topic, I love my D30. I have a D10 (USB in, SPDIF out) too and both of them are awesome. I really appreciate all the time that Amirm has taken to measure all these DAC's. Scientifically looking at the measurements is so much better than hearing audiophiles talk about these items in subjective ways.

 

[Mr. Electric Wizard]

Is this one?:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-RC...330109?hash=item2d0a0073bd:g:XYUAAOSwwz9ep9Yk