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Topping D30 DAC Measurement and Review

Julf

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Spending time worrying about DACs is a fools errand. Focus on speakers, source material and room.
 

Julf

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Or you could just stick to solid state and have accurate and transparent reproduction of the original signal...
 
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Julf

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Except the original signal was heard and presented by the mastering engineer with entirely different gear than any end user. Unless you can replicate the the entire chain of what the master used for playback, you will never know what the master intended you to hear. Add the difference in ears and brain to the equation to make it even more nonsensical.

Ah, yes, so scrap the whole idea of "HiFi" (as in "High Fidelity"). If a boom box is what you like, that is the ideal.
 
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Between Toslink and SPDIF which input is better to use with a D30? I know USB is the king, but out of these two, which one?
 

FireLion

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Anyone else find it a little compressed which I think was the upper-mids. The sound of the D10 to be better in this regard and still have my D10.
 
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Julf

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Anyone else find it a little compressed in I think was the upper-mids. I sound the D10 to be better in this regard and still have my D10.

Sighted listening?
 

FireLion

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Sighted listening?

Yes but it's so apparent that the D30 sounds like poopy or there is bad batch floating about. The sound signature might also be liked by some, who knows? I only had it for a few weeks and hated it, the D10 had a blacker background and better separation.
 

Julf

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Yes but it's so apparent that the D30 sounds like poopy or there is bad batch floating about. The sound signature might also be liked by some, who knows? I only had it for a few weeks and hated it, the D10 had a blacker background and better separation.

Your subjective perception is noted.
 
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Dang, if the D30 had the same function as the D10 (digital bridge - USB --> SPDIF) I'd try to swap them out and see how different they are.
 

solderdude

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uh-huh.

Can you produce any measurements showing 'something' in the audio performance actually changed ?
 
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Julf

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a bit tweak around the two LDOs will make it sounds a lot faster with a lot of attack.

Remind me again, what are the measurement units for speed and attack? How much did they improve?
 

solderdude

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Transient response is improved for the LDO... funny thing is that for this to make a difference there has to be a load that draws fast transients.
I am quite certain a DAC does NOT draw transient currents, most certainly not in the audiopath. Instead I expect a constant current draw when playing music. How would transient response change in this case ?
How would that work ?
Have you actually measured this ? What are the results ?
In what frequency range do you think transient response in music resides ?
Do you get 'sharper' squarewave or needle results ?
Have you compared blind to a non-modified DAC ?
 

Julf

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You are welcome to refer to TI's datasheet on LM317 and LM337 on transient response of the LDO.

So when you say "speed" you don't actually mean speed but slew rate / rise time?

My main gripe is topping put 4 capxon caps in this unit. I used to have capxon failed in an use hub, and don't want them.

That is an issue of reliability, not sound quality or "speed", right?

I have been experimenting this on another perf board for a while and can safely say this will only increase noise floor if you examine with a scope.

Can you share your measurement setup and scope pics?
 

solderdude

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While those are technical and longevity improvements in the power supply... why would these affect sound ?

The LDO's in this case don't have to deal with transients (except on start-up) so why would certain sound aspects improve (maybe with the exception of noise level ?)
Why would impulse response be audibly but not technically be improved ? What's the connection to impulse response ?
Can you show the currents in the powersupply of the analog circuits to be improved or modulation of the power supply to be changed ?
It is not impossible to measure/show power supply AC voltages even down to -100dB.
That would make more compelling evidence than a subjective and sighted observation.
 
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Julf

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For line level, slew rate is not a huge problem and 5V/us is sufficient. Plus, in D30, those LDOs only feed into the opa2132.

Indeed. Which is why I am confused about you talking about improving "speed".

Refer to it for your personal interest. I am in no mood explaining what I wrote on this topic. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nI_EkXubOQon-b5293qMuAQ9Y5SQj8fG

Thanks, and yes, better PSU filtration might improve SNR - but what does that have to do with "speed" or "attack"?

I have some extra measurements here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hlu2_QqfUGVbg4eBIIC5alpeBZWrt6ep Picture ended with "t" is for transient.

Which is before and which is after (the mods)?
 

Julf

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No, you still didn’t get it. LDOs like LM317’s noise is not determined by output capacitor. It’s set by Cadj that’s decoupling the Adj pin. Output cap only improves transient response. So if you still think of snr you are dead wrong. You don’t need output capacitor on LM317 at all and noise won’t change.

You are right - I don't get it. So can you please just show transient response before and after your mods?
 

Julf

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Ultimately my mod would make those ldos response faster to voltage drops under load.

That is what I would like to see evidence of (and that that would improve "speed" and "attack").
 

Julf

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well get your hands on a real circuit other than your keyboard then. It’s fun.

I know. Been doing it for 45 years. The point is that I am not the one making claims.
 
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