Topping Centaurus R2R DAC Review

[binaryblaze]

Thanks for sharing.
Impressive noise floor. So that's all THD driven, which is good to know and not a real surprise.
Can you show the same @-6dBFS and -16dBFS?

ignore 180Hz and its harmonics - interference, not from its SMPS
DAC currently on firmware v0.17 - previous measurements done under firmware 0.15
settings should still be the same - 96kHz, 'best', 2x OS
I could not reproduce the ~-110dB THD+N now

0dBFS (since I only had 0dBFS version of that file the following tones are generated with Audition, 96kHz, 32b mono)
clipping? - might have to do with Cosmos ADC's input impedance setting - currently set to 4.5V

-0.1dBFS

-6 dBFS

-16 dBFS

Could you please specify what is the device you have measured ?

A Topping Centaurus purchased from AliExpress.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

A Topping Centaurus purchased from AliExpress.

Aah there's hope then... any chance of measurements in NOS mode?

 

[binaryblaze]

Aah there's hope then... any chance of measurements in NOS mode?

I'd love to but I don't think that's what 48k looks like under NOS.

 

[NTTY]

View attachment 414613

I'd love to but I don't think that's what 48k looks like under NOS.

No indeed.

 

[NTTY]

ignore 180Hz and its harmonics - interference, not from its SMPS
DAC currently on firmware v0.17 - previous measurements done under firmware 0.15
settings should still be the same - 96kHz, 'best', 2x OS
I could not reproduce the ~-110dB THD+N now

0dBFS (since I only had 0dBFS version of that file the following tones are generated with Audition, 96kHz, 32b mono)
clipping? - might have to do with Cosmos ADC's input impedance setting - currently set to 4.5V
View attachment 414609

-0.1dBFS
View attachment 414610
-6 dBFS
View attachment 414611
-16 dBFS
View attachment 414612


A Topping Centaurus purchased from AliExpress.

Oops. Either Firmware issue or test files. Can you try with REW’s generator?
And no, it’s not clipping else odd harmonics would be higher than the rest, it’s high level harmonic distortion.
With -0.1dBFS, you’re nearly back to what it was, so I’d really suspect something wrong in digital domain, either with the interpolator of the Centaurus (after firmware update) or when creating the test file at that level.
Alternatively to Adobe, you can create test tones with Audacity’s generator.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

View attachment 414613

I'd love to but I don't think that's what 48k looks like under NOS.

Sorry I’m a bit confused, I’m not sure what you mean?

 

[NTTY]

Sorry I’m a bit confused, I’m not sure what you mean?

I suspect @binaryblaze meant that, when setting to NOS, the wide band view with white noise shows standard filter attenuation, which means it’s not NOS setting.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I suspect @binaryblaze meant that, when setting to NOS, the wide band view with white noise shows standard filter attenuation, which means it’s not NOS setting.

If we are saying that NOS mode is actually not NOS then why did @amirm ’s only NOS measurement show no attenuation.

 

[Killingbeans]

Got the point, like saying it rolls of just like the good old vinyl. But it is obvious that this is not an argument made from a high fidelity standpoint.

One thing I've come to realize is that practically every single time a piece of audio gear (speakers/headphones excluded) has a characteristic that truly can be the cause of a preference, that characteristic is something simple affecting the frequency response. And it can be replicated by any electronics hobbyist by putting a few $ (max) worth of passive components in series and/or parallel with the line level signal of a neutral setup.

I've also noticed that audiophiles will persistently claim that those same characteristic isn't the cause of their personal preference. Instead they insist that the preference is caused by something "magical" that only the typology in question can deliver, and that you need painstaking engineering to make it a part of a product.

People just really, really want to believe. And if you try to nudge them in the direction of rational thought, they'll take it as a personal insult.

 

[Sokel]

The noise calculation in REW's dashboard does not lie, and is independent from FFT capture settings. That's what I usually look at (when people share)

We can make it lie though,in various ways:


truth


lie

(one of them,it just needs the right driver,you touch nothing at REW)

 

[NTTY]

If we are saying that NOS mode is actually not NOS then why did @amirm ’s only NOS measurement show no attenuation.

It could be an error with the firmware update in the selection menu.
Amir's NOS view showed indeed no attenuation at least up to 30k.

 

[NTTY]

We can make it lie though,in various ways:

View attachment 414622
truth

View attachment 414623
lie

(one of them,it just needs the right driver,you touch nothing at REW)

That's different. Noise with or without signal. I would indeed not trust either of your views (no signal).

 

[Sokel]

That's different. Noise with or without signal. I would indeed not trust either of your views (no signal).

It's both with a -148dB signal but it can be done even at 0dB,you can tell at the lie image.
Let's not pollute the thread though,I may open a thread about cheating and the obvious markers to know it (that's not one of them though)

 

[VientoB]

Also some are saying that it is good (though I think it's quite expensive) as the point of doing it this way is that it sounds "better" than DS or at least different

But it doesn't.

 

[raif71]

But it doesn't.

I guess you will not be buying it then.

 

[keenerz]

The pinouts seemed to be mixed up, I was able to flip around some of the pins on the DDC to make it work but now it only sees it as DSD when its playing PCM... so there's something really messed up with this firmware.

Following up on this. Apparently Topping knows and says they're working on a fix in a new firmware. Right now they sent me the stock 0.14 firmware and its working perfectly again.

 

[NTTY]

Following up on this. Apparently Topping knows and says they're working on a fix in a new firmware. Right now they sent me the stock 0.14 firmware and its working perfectly again.

Good to know they have a decent customer service. You got a reply and a workaround. Nice.

 

[fatoldgit]

Following up on this. Apparently Topping knows and says they're working on a fix in a new firmware. Right now they sent me the stock 0.14 firmware and its working perfectly again.

Explain this to me.

This isn't an FPGA DAC... so the basic DAC function is hard set (in this case resistors).

And the mentioned error was when in NOS mode noting that obviously (?) switching between NOS and non-NOS also toggles in/out another hard set bit of logic, baked into silicon that cant be changed via a software update.

So how do two "set in silicon" functions get screwed by a software update?

Or is the NOS/no-NOS mode written in software?

And whether it is or isnt, where was the QA testing before they released the new update? The DAC has a limited set of functions so it isnt hard to cycle thru the various combinations on the test bench.

Peter

 

[welwynnick]

It's controlled by an FPGA

 

[keenerz]

Explain this to me.

This isn't an FPGA DAC... so the basic DAC function is hard set (in this case resistors).

And the mentioned error was when in NOS mode noting that obviously (?) switching between NOS and non-NOS also toggles in/out another hard set bit of logic, baked into silicon that cant be changed via a software update.

So how do two "set in silicon" functions get screwed by a software update?

Or is the NOS/no-NOS mode written in software?

And whether it is or isnt, where was the QA testing before they released the new update? The DAC has a limited set of functions so it isnt hard to cycle thru the various combinations on the test bench.

Peter

Look I dont know where you got all that from my very brief posts. This sounds like something more you can ask Topping themselves or experts in the field I'm no engineer just a guy who like Audio gear. I'm just putting out what I have experienced myself by swapping back firmware.
There is some kind of logic obviously controlling the meters and settings.