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I've been browsing the forum for many days, and I can't help but post a question. Could you all recommend some DACs that produce beautiful sound?

erduo9

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I've been browsing the forum for many days, and I can't help but post a question. Could you all recommend some DACs that produce beautiful sound?

I'm a music enthusiast from China. I've always been using a Japanese-style home theater amplifier to listen to music. Now, I think I'm transitioning from a beginner audiophile to an intermediate one. My current system works fine for watching movies. The sound field and atmosphere are both satisfactory. However, gradually I feel that this system is not suitable for listening to music. The music lacks emotion, it's not vivid, and the sound is not full. I plan to set up a new Hi-Fi stereo system. For the convenience of listening to music, I will definitely choose a DAC with Bluetooth LDAC functionality.

These days, I've been reading posts on the forum and looking at Amirm's reviews. The more I read, the more confused I get. Various specifications and parameters of DACs are indeed very important. Also, some people said in the posts that a DAC from a few years ago is sufficient, and there's no need to get one with the latest chip. What I want to ask is, which DACs sound good when it comes to listening to music? I don't care about the parameters. In fact, I don't quite understand them. I just want a DAC that sounds nice, pleasing to the ears, and enjoyable to listen to for a long time, something that makes me feel really enchanted the moment I hear it. Of course, the price should be reasonable. I remember a netizen on the forum said that the SMSL D-6S is more than enough, and there's no need for a DAC with the latest chip at all. So, does the SMSL D-6S provide a pleasant and comfortable listening experience when playing music?

The Topping Centaurus R2R DAC has received quite high praise in China. Many people think it is the best-sounding DAC produced by Topping. I would like to share an excerpt from a Chinese review with you: The performance of the Centaurus exceeds expectations. It has broken our previous impression of Topping, and the unique charm of the R-2R technology has been well demonstrated. The sound is full, smooth, soft, stable, upright, and flowing, with a sense of rhythm and control. This is the characteristic of a high-end product. However, it seems that according to Amirm's evaluation indicators, the Centaurus performs quite averagely. Should I prioritize the parameters or the auditory experience? It's a pity that I won't be able to hear it unless I actually buy it.
 
I feel that I posted this thread in the wrong place. Could the administrator please move it to the Digital To Analog (DAC) Reviews and Discussion section?
 
The music lacks emotion, it's not vivid, and the sound is not full. I plan to set up a new Hi-Fi stereo system. For the convenience of listening to music, I will definitely choose a DAC with Bluetooth LDAC functionality.

For more emotional / vivid music you should focus on picking the right speakers, above all.

What I want to ask is, which DACs sound good when it comes to listening to music? I don't care about the parameters. In fact, I don't quite understand them. I just want a DAC that sounds nice, pleasing to the ears, and enjoyable to listen to for a long time, something that makes me feel really enchanted the moment I hear it.

To the point, anything in the blue (or green, really) section will do this for you. You can search all the reviewed DACs here.

Ultimately, DACs cannot make music sound better, they can only make it worse, or leave it alone and give you everything the music has to offer. The ones in blue all do this extremely well.

SMSL D-6S is more than enough.

Despite what I'm saying here, I am sure you have read a lot of reviews elsewhere that say one DAC sounds "warm" and the other one sounds "airy" and another is "brittle", etc. etc.

The truth is there is a lot of nonsense in audio reviewing. Science says many DACs perform so well that no human could tell them apart in a proper test. And In blind testing this is basically always the case. The fact that many people hear differences anyway is because 1) cognitive (mind) effects cause them to hear changes that aren't real and 2) they don't always match the levels correctly. Unfortunately it is as simple as that.

So, pick the DAC that has the features and price you want, then stop worrying about DACs and start worrying about speakers. There are even more complex measurements for you to start studying. ;)

Also, welcome to ASR!
 
I've been browsing the forum
Welcome to ASR. :)
Should I prioritize the parameters or the auditory experience?
Parameters... to an extent (i.e. low noise and distortion etc.). But mostly functionality, connectivity, aesthetics etc.

DAC's are a solved problem and have been for a long time, so just get one that measures well to excellent, has what you need, then kick back and enjoy some tunes.

SINAD (or THD+N) is not a perceptually correlated metric.

Forget all that subjective stuff you're reading about DAC's... focus on the speakers and room if you want audible improvement. DAC's are not where that is at... most DAC's will honestly sound identical or extremely minor differences at best.

There's a wealth of information here at ASR... you might like this video in fact;



JSmith
 
A lot like asking "Could you recommend a brand of replacement windows that will make will make my backyard look especially beautiful?" Windows are transparent, and, these days, so are virtually all dacs. Just find one Amir reviewed that has the features you want at a price you want to pay, and you're done.
 
so, some people said in the posts that a DAC from a few years ago is sufficient, and there's no need to get one with the latest chip.
That's true. It's just not that hard to make a DAC that's better than human hearing. That's true for MOST electronics. (Speakers and headphones are a different story and there will always be a difference.) You'll read a lot of nonsense elsewhere. This is one of the few rational-scientific audio-related resources.

With electronics there are only 3 REAL characteristics that determine sound quality - Noise, distortion, and frequency response. (See Audiophoolery.) With modern electronics, noise is usually the only concern (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Frequency response and distortion are almost always better than human hearing unless you over-drive an amplifier into clipping/distortion. DACs rarely have audible noise unless but it depends on the amount of amplification, the sensitivity of your speakers (or headphones), how close you are to the speakers, other noise in the room, etc.

I don't claim to have "golden ears" but the ONLY time I've heard a difference or defect with a "DAC" it was a soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed. I never heard anything wrong with DAC built-into my 1st CD player I bought in 1985 and I've never owned a stand-alone DAC.

Audio video receivers have lots of features and potential advantages. Most stand-alone can't decode the DVD & Blu-ray formats, they are stereo-only, and since they can't decode the surround formats you lose the "point one" LFE channel in movies.... The other surround channels are included in the normal stereo downmix but the only way to get the LFE is with a surround decoder and a separate subwoofer.

If want better sound, consider getting different speakers. And/or if you have surround speakers you might want to experiment with the various soundfield settings on your AVR. I like to use a "hall" or "theater" setting with regular stereo music for the feel of a bigger space but that means I'm not listening "as intended" which is sort-of hi-fi heresy. ;)

If your AVR has "room correction" you can try that too. Or you can try some simple EQ (adjusting the bass & treble, etc.).

The sound field and atmosphere are both satisfactory. However, gradually I feel that this system is not suitable for listening to music. The music lacks emotion, it's not vivid, and the sound is not full.
A lot of these things depend on the recording/production and how you feel when listening. And a lot of the words you're using (and most of the words used by "audiophiles") are not well defined and the characteristics are not measurable or quantifiable. (Everything that can be heard can be measured, except when it comes to measuring speakers in a room things get more complicated. and harder to describe.)
 
+1 to the comments but just a bit of counterpoint and nuance.

Spend your money on speakers. That is what matters even though it is the toughest to change (aesthetics, selling old gear, trying out and buying new gear). Very few people go to active speakers and go back to passive speakers for the sound. They may not like the look or they may not like the reliability. This says a lot because active speakers tend to use mediocre amplifiers and ADCs/DACs even at the $10K/pair level from Meyer Sound, Genelec, and Neumann.

Among DACs, the only way to get a sound to it is to go with something that clearly measures differently. The Sony TA-ZH1ES is a superb DAC with silly high levels of distortion but world-class channel matching and AC mains noise control. But you would be better off buying a different set of headphones or different set of speakers than spending money on a DAC…

If you don’t need the HDMI ARC support, the Fosi ZD3 is excellent and you *can* swap op amps to impart potentially subtle differences in performance.
 
What I want to ask is, which DACs sound good when it comes to listening to music? I don't care about the parameters ...... I just want a DAC that sounds nice, pleasing to the ears, and enjoyable to listen to for a long time, something that makes me feel really enchanted the moment I hear it.

"Good", "nice", "enjoyable" and "enchanted" have no reproducible meaning. Science and engineering are highly dependent on reproducibility.

A DAC is the product of modern digital technology. Digital technology was developed for reproducibility and accuracy. It is very good for transferring information. It gives us accurate pictures of Mars, reliable and intelligible cell phone use, wonderful pictures on our TV, better MRI use, GPS, production automation and vastly expanded use by the military.

None of these processes are dependent on personal opinion. None are dependent on human emotion. None of them are designed to "enchant" us. The whole idea of digital technology is to achieve accuracy beyond the limits of the analog processes it replaces ... and beyond the limits of human senses. That's the reason it was applied in audio ... to record and recreate sound more accurately.

Therefore, digital electronics present the listener with, above all, an accurate recreation of a recording.

Some people don't like that. They want more lush, or more vivid, or more lively, or more whatever. They regard accuracy as sterile or harsh, and they blame the digital nature of the electronics.
But what would be the use of cameras on Mars that gave us a lush picture of the Martian landscape? What about a TV that gives us oranges rather than reds? What about an MRI that can't detect lung cancer, or a GPS that takes you off a cliff?
So what you want is not accurate, and therefore not what the digital audio system was designed to provide. That doesn't mean that you can't get what you want, it just means that you will need to resort to technology that is inherently inaccurate to get what you feel is pleasing. IOW, a modified signal.
You can even use digital to do some of this. Plugins and an almost infinite capability to EQ the signal can get you most of the way there, and if you really, really want to go lush and musical, you can try tube gear and less-accurate speaker systems. Some people do exactly that.

Eventually, you'll probably find what you want. It will be personally pleasing to you. It may also take years and thousands and thousands of dollars, but that's the price you have to pay for deviating from industrial standards and prioritizing emotions that are unique to you.

You've got a hard road ahead of you. We can try mightily to help you, but the focus on this site is science and engineering. I have no idea how successful we might be.

I wish you good luck! :)
 
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So what you want is not accurate, and therefore not what the digital audio system was designed to provide
Or the OP just doesn’t like his speakers ;)

Very good advice all round here! My addition would be to reconsider changing the full setup. Your AVR is likely pretty good. A recent model Denon or Marantz may yield better room correction though, and this can be a major sound quality uplift if implemented correctly.

As others have said: focus on speakers first. They, together with your room are orders of magnitude ahead when it comes to influencing what you hear. A first step could be to get some measurement microphone and see what is going on with your room and speakers. It may give some indication of what’s wrong.

What AVR and speakers do you have now?
 
Or the OP just doesn’t like his speakers ;)

Very good advice all round here! My addition would be to reconsider changing the full setup. Your AVR is likely pretty good. A recent model Denon or Marantz may yield better room correction though, and this can be a major sound quality uplift if implemented correctly.

As others have said: focus on speakers first. They, together with your room are orders of magnitude ahead when it comes to influencing what you hear. A first step could be to get some measurement microphone and see what is going on with your room and speakers. It may give some indication of what’s wrong.

What AVR and speakers do you have now?
I have a pair of floor-standing speakers, which are masterpieces of Chinese brands. They are three-way speakers with dual 8-inch drivers. My AVR is the Onkyo TX-NR5010. Following your advice, I have now started to read Amirm's reviews of speakers.
 
I have a pair of floor-standing speakers, which are masterpieces of Chinese brands. They are three-way speakers with dual 8-inch drivers.
That’s not very specific ;) Do you have more detailed info?
My AVR is the Onkyo TX-NR5010.
It supports MultEQ XT32, which should do a decent enough job. Do you have it enabled?
 
I have a pair of floor-standing speakers, which are masterpieces of Chinese brands. They are three-way speakers with dual 8-inch drivers. My AVR is the Onkyo TX-NR5010. Following your advice, I have now started to read Amirm's reviews of speakers.
Speakers should be more than fine for music so is the ESS 32 DAC in AVR. Audyssey MultEQ XT32 also has loudness (equal loudness compensation). While it's fine you can improve it's DSP EQ ability with an app that let's you costumise it better and that will be a greatest upgrade you can do. I can't remember what app whose but I am sure someone else will recollect and bring it up. Have fun, enjoy, read and learn.
 
Others mentioning the room itself and room correction via DSP are also making good points. Placement of the speakers themselves also matters quite a bit.

Also, sometimes it happens that big-name, expensive speakers actually perform poorly, or only perform well in certain rooms. You would not be the first person to own very impressive speakers and then eventually realize they have problems.

For example, the "legendary" brand Wilson doesn't do well AT ALL in lab measurements, especially for the money. B&W, which used to be technically state-of-the-art in the 80s is now making speakers that behave poorly, but in a strategic way that sounds impressive in the showroom. Even legendary speakers like the LS3/5a have technical flaws that we understand more easily today with modern measurements.

If they are recently made speakers by a technically proficient brand, they are likely to be decent, but on the other hand, we see speakers being released by known brands even today that have serious problems, like this one.

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Not to get too technical: the black line should be straight, the red and blue lines should be smooth... especially for $1500 per pair!

And, as this thread goes on, people will tell you to check the sound in your room using REW and a microphone. I definitely recommend it, you can quickly find out what the problems are, although this is diving straight into the technical / numbers / measurements pool, so don't feel obligated to do this if you aren't interested.
 
Be aware that lots of music is recorded/masterd in such way that it could sounds bad/worse. An analitic well measured system included DSP could relentless let these recordings/masters sound even more worse no Mercy :facepalm:
 
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To be blunt, a DAC is not a musical instrument. It has a relatively simple job and unless there is a design flaw you should expect DAC's to sound identical. In the modern era you are paying for features (such as balanced outputs or bluetooth connectivity) or brand name.

The performance of the Centaurus exceeds expectations. It has broken our previous impression of Topping, and the unique charm of the R-2R technology has been well demonstrated. The sound is full, smooth, soft, stable, upright, and flowing, with a sense of rhythm and control.

These subjective qualities originate from the imagination of reviewers, it is often in their best interest to falsely praise products even when the performance relative to cost is low. Companies don't like sending review samples if they won't get applauded.

I do home theatre consulting and a common question I get is do high-end AV receivers perform well for music. In many cases they are actually superior to 2 channel setups, because properly tuned room correction software is worth giving up even 30dB of SINAD performance. Subwoofer integration is also key, most rooms lack the acoustic treatment needed for standalone speakers to produce high quality bass, and most speakers lack the ability to play 20-50Hz content with low distortion even if the room was treated sufficiently.
 
Hi, and welcome

I'll echo what others have said: please don't worry about DACs, just get one at the lower end of your budget with the features you want (inputs, outputs, volume, remote etc) then think about your speakers and your speakers in your room.

Enjoy the beautiful music (which is nothing to do with the DAC) :)
 
I agree to all comments above. Just want to add that there is nothing wrong with personal preferences. Start with a neutral sounding system, and when a recording sounds thin/sterile/aggressive to you (which could also be due to bad mastering) just use tone controls or EQ - that's what they're made for.
 
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