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High end DAC current state of the art

One problem with multi-channel DACs is that it's a niche market with too few customers.
Even Topping has discontinued the affordable and very well-measured 8-channel DM7 due to lack of sales.
Agree, but devices like the Nuprime H16-A could change this as it allows for full HD multichannel. Coupled with a computer running convolution and a proper multichannel DAC, performance could easily match or exceed even the best processors.
 
Agree, but devices like the Nuprime H16-A could change this as it allows for full HD multichannel. Coupled with a computer running convolution and a proper multichannel DAC, performance could easily match or exceed even the best processors.
I already asked in your thread about the Nuprime H16-A, but unfortunately you didn't reply.
- Which multi-channel DAC can I connect to the Nuprime H16-A? And how?
- Why exactly do I need a computer with a folding processor?
- What do I need if I want to use regular speakers, i.e., non-compatible speakers?
 
If you really want to upgrade your system and have plenty of money:

1. Build a listening room with a high ceiling.
2. Fill your rear wall with very deep diffusers and your front wall with large, deep absorbers. Leave the side reflections as they are.
3. Purchase speakers designed for flush mounting.
4. Have someone construct the front wall of that listening room to accommodate these flush mounted speakers.

The answer you are looking for is not really in a new dac or a new amp.
 
I already asked in your thread about the Nuprime H16-A, but unfortunately you didn't reply.
- Which multi-channel DAC can I connect to the Nuprime H16-A? And how?
- Why exactly do I need a computer with a folding processor?
- What do I need if I want to use regular speakers, i.e., non-compatible speakers?
The product hasn’t been released yet. Chris at https://audiophilestyle.com/ should be doing a write up on how it can be used in a multichannel setup.
 
If you really want to upgrade your system and have plenty of money:

1. Build a listening room with a high ceiling.
2. Fill your rear wall with very deep diffusers and your front wall with large, deep absorbers. Leave the side reflections as they are.
3. Purchase speakers designed for flush mounting.
4. Have someone construct the front wall of that listening room to accommodate these flush mounted speakers.

The answer you are looking for is not really in a new dac or a new amp.
The room is very important. There are some less extreme solutions than those proposed that can help, along with a proper convolution filter. All of these will have orders of magnitude bigger impact than variations between well designed electronics.
 
The product hasn’t been released yet. Chris at https://audiophilestyle.com/ should be doing a write up on how it can be used in a multichannel setup.
Unfortunately, that doesn't answer any of my questions.
Could you please answer my questions so that I, and probably some others, have an idea of how to use the device and what is required?
That would be very nice.
 
I know what you know … read the information provided by the company and check in on what Chris reports once he receives the product
 
Unfortunately, that doesn't answer any of my questions.
Could you please answer my questions so that I, and probably some others, have an idea of how to use the device and what is required?
That would be very nice.
Agree with your questions?
Why should buy more people multichannel dacs for the PC after the HA16-A is released?
Without having some AoIP compatible speakers in the system, the nuprime can acts only as external ATMOS "decoder" with a (unknown) Room control.

My meaning is: AoIP makes only sense in using compatible speakers and for me a device like the HA16-A doesn't have enough inputs (Storm Audio with their Evo products are much more in my sense).

My problem is more: I'm using an exaSound e68 multichannel DAC and searching for a new (at least with Dirac and DSD support) AV Pre with an analogue multichannel in.
And then you'll see, that nearly no product exists in this area (I'm waiting for the coming Primare SP35).
It seems also, that exaSound has stopped selling their products, because there isn't a real market for multichannel dacs anymore (I know, here are s lot of people in using a PC and active speakers for listening...)
 
I may be wrong, but prior to the H16-A and the Arvus it was very difficult to get HD multichannel decoded audio out from HDMI to a PC for DSP processing and then to a state of the art DAC. VanityPro makes an HDMI extractor that has USB out, but it doesn't do any decoding. The main use of multichannel dacs presently I suspect is for DSP active crossovers, and this is a very niche market. HD multichannel music is still at its infancy, and it may turn out to be nothing, but products like the H16-A are a game changer for HD multichannel music. Also if you can build a system for 1/3 the price of a Storm or Trinnov, that outperforms these processors, then I think this would be interesting for a larger niche than active crossovers.
 
Having a PC in the loop sucks, this setup has so many compromises/complications over an AVR/AVP. I'm inclined toward active speakers & AoIP, but only used for decoding the Nuprime is still just one step of several if you want DSP/room EQ in the loop. They do list however
Integrated automatic room acoustic calibration with built-in testing and compensation for room EQ, channel loudness, and speaker distances.
but don't really elaborate on it further. I'm sure it won't quite be GLM, but if this feature is surprisingly mature upon release and can be a useful replacement for outboard DSP/room EQ then they really have moved the needle in this space. Not holding my breath, but cautiously optimistic!

Anyway, we're off on a tangent. I guess the ultimate DAC is the one built in to an active speaker. if you like to live on the bleeding edge anyway.
 
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Also direct digital class D amps like the Axign AX5689 are super cool - the best DAC is no DAC if you can have the MOSFET directly painting from a digital PWM signal. Straight from digital domain to a fully amplified signal in one shot :cool: believe the Marantz M1 uses this
 
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Having a PC in the loop sucks, this setup has so many compromises/complications over an AVR/AVP. I'm inclined toward active speakers & AoIP, but only used for decoding the Nuprime is still just one step of several if you want DSP/room EQ in the loop. They do list however

but don't really elaborate on it further. I'm sure it won't quite be GLM, but if this feature is surprisingly mature upon release and can be a useful replacement for outboard DSP/room EQ then they really have moved the needle in this space. Not holding my breath, but cautiously optimistic!

Anyway, we're off on a tangent. I guess the ultimate DAC is the one built in to an active speaker. if you like to live on the bleeding edge anyway.
I used a dedicate PC to run a convolution filter using a miniDSP toslink to usb streamer as an input and output to an RME DAC. Worked flawlessly, and sounded fantastic. Problem was it was limited to 2 channel low res inputs and for movies many stereo tracks are missing the LFE. A PC can run a much more sophisticated DSP than what you can get from most AVP or AVRs. Also the DACs in these are ok but not state of the art.

My current system has an xlr ab switch that selects between an RME DAC playing using Roon with an Audiolense convolution filter OR a Denon 4800h as a prepro with Dirac. For movies and TV the Denon is great, and it’s multichannel. But for music the RME/Audiolense is just night and day better. I use an Nvidia Shield to get HD multichannel music into the Denon. OK sounding, but surely not at the level of the RME/Audiolense. Amps are Benchmark AHB2s, speakers are TAD R1s and KEF Reference and R Meta. Starting from scratch I would get AoIP speakers, but I got the TADs many years ago and with properly done DSP they are very good.
 
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I used a dedicate PC to run a convolution filter using a miniDSP toslink to usb streamer as an input and output to an RME DAC. Worked flawlessly, and sounded fantastic. Problem was it was limited to 2 channel low res inputs and for movies many stereo tracks are missing the LFE. A PC can run a much more sophisticated DSP than what you can get from most AVP or AVRs. Also the DACs in these are ok but not state of the art.

My current system has an xlr ab switch that selects between an RME DAC playing using Roon with an Audiolense convolution filter OR a Denon 4800h as a prepro with Dirac. For movies and TV the Denon is great, and it’s multichannel. But for music the RME/Audiolense is just night and day better. I use an Nvidia Shield to get HD multichannel music into the Denon. OK sounding, but surely not at the level of the RME/Audiolense. Amps are Benchmark AHB2s, speakers are TAD R1s and KEF Reference and R Meta. Starting from scratch I would get AoIP speakers, but I got the TADs many years ago and with properly done DSP they are very good.
Glad your setup sounds good! I should have clarified what I meant, a PC in the loop is a drag in that its additional gear, cost, and a place to introduce latency (sensitive for gaming. I don't do a lot, but don't want to rule out the option). In terms of pure fidelity, theres no compromise there.
Tempted by Genelec AoIP speakers but there's no half-committing to this type of setup. Glad its at least becoming more doable on paper, and thats half the fun.
 
Glad your setup sounds good! I should have clarified what I meant, a PC in the loop is a drag in that its additional gear, cost, and a place to introduce latency (sensitive for gaming. I don't do a lot, but don't want to rule out the option). In terms of pure fidelity, theres no compromise there.
Tempted by Genelec AoIP speakers but there's no half-committing to this type of setup. Glad its at least becoming more doable on paper, and thats half the fun.
Yes. Agree. AoIP is very much all or nothing. The H16-A seems much more reasonably priced than the Arvus and it’s from a much more established company. Hopefully we will see more like it that allow open architecture regarding the methods for DSP and equipment, DAC etc
 
Also direct digital class D amps like the Axign AX5689 are super cool - the best DAC is no DAC if you can have the MOSFET directly painting from a digital PWM signal. Straight from digital domain to a fully amplified signal in one shot :cool: believe the Marantz M1 uses this
There is always a DAC to convert digits (be them only 1s and 0s, actually meaning 1 and -1 values respectively, as with unprocessed DSD) to voltages (or currents or whatever analogue physical phenomena). As some authors* have pointed out: 'The signal ceases being digital once it is referred to a time base. Even at the time of writing [2006], amplifiers according to this design [So called "full digital amplifiers"] are still touted as “more pure, because the D/A conversion stage is avoided”. This is not quite the case, unfortunately. A simple, high-quality small-signal D/A converter is substituted for by a mediocre discrete design using power FETs.'

*Bruno Putzeys, André Veltman, Paul van der Hulst and René Gronenberg. See : https://www.researchgate.net/public...1YmxpY2F0aW9uIiwicGFnZSI6InB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIn19
 
A simple, high-quality small-signal D/A converter is substituted for by a mediocre discrete design using power FETs.'
this may have been the state in 2006. I agree the typical DAC is extremely mature and it would be a lot of work for a class D design to reach a performance level that can be readily had for fairly cheap already. but are some designs in 2025 are quite close? already better than some dac/amp boards? yes. the Axign measures well and seems competently designed. this is not a gimmick of design, it is a clever approach but takes a lot of engineering to pull off. similar of the discourse on class D amps more generally.
 
If you really want to upgrade your system and have plenty of money:

1. Build a listening room with a high ceiling.
2. Fill your rear wall with very deep diffusers and your front wall with large, deep absorbers. Leave the side reflections as they are.
3. Purchase speakers designed for flush mounting.
4. Have someone construct the front wall of that listening room to accommodate these flush mounted speakers.

The answer you are looking for is not really in a new dac or a new amp.
Dear Blockader thanks for Your input , why you want to have a high ceiling ? Also keep first reflections?
 
I may be wrong, but prior to the H16-A and the Arvus it was very difficult to get HD multichannel decoded audio out from HDMI to a PC for DSP processing and then to a state of the art DAC. VanityPro makes an HDMI extractor that has USB out, but it doesn't do any decoding. The main use of multichannel dacs presently I suspect is for DSP active crossovers, and this is a very niche market. HD multichannel music is still at its infancy, and it may turn out to be nothing, but products like the H16-A are a game changer for HD multichannel music. Also if you can build a system for 1/3 the price of a Storm or Trinnov, that outperforms these processors, then I think this would be interesting for a larger niche than active crossovers.
Hi From Italy PGA the studios has cheated all of us since CD switch crossing from the 80’s with all media possible dvd Blu-ray and all surround enveloping codec till current atmos multichannel… with always the need of changing one time the media one time the hardware. It’s over now … they are now purposing Blu-ray as next revolution multichannel listening to the moon impossible without also proper hardware ( imagine they are even back with vynil for try selling something ) there will be no massive music in high resolution multichannel without Movies and obviously will not have any great multichannel dacs especially at proper prices if the market is not combine between all parties . No chance for a new media for me is dead , never again.. youngers generation do online .. Studios has to make good quality on streaming not just one company like AIX or AURO’s , need every studios involved which selling quality subscription— hardware producer instead has to agree on format like Flac Multichannel plus the various codec needed I guess its the way to go . Even 16 bit 44 kHz is enough for multichannel if properly done and better than any higher resolution badly done . Recording mixing remastering with AI may could probably be done easier and cheaper to obtain better sounding multichannel music and movie . Good Sunday everyone
 
Hi From Italy PGA the studios has cheated all of us since CD switch crossing from the 80’s with all media possible dvd Blu-ray and all surround enveloping codec till current atmos multichannel… with always the need of changing one time the media one time the hardware. It’s over now … they are now purposing Blu-ray as next revolution multichannel listening to the moon impossible without also proper hardware ( imagine they are even back with vynil for try selling something ) there will be no massive music in high resolution multichannel without Movies and obviously will not have any great multichannel dacs especially at proper prices if the market is not combine between all parties . No chance for a new media for me is dead , never again.. youngers generation do online .. Studios has to make good quality on streaming not just one company like AIX or AURO’s , need every studios involved which selling quality subscription— hardware producer instead has to agree on format like Flac Multichannel plus the various codec needed I guess its the way to go . Even 16 bit 44 kHz is enough for multichannel if properly done and better than any higher resolution badly done . Recording mixing remastering with AI may could probably be done easier and cheaper to obtain better sounding multichannel music and movie . Good Sunday everyone
Your nightmare has long since come true.
You apparently haven't noticed that sales growth for high-quality CDs and vinyl has been increasing every year for several years, even faster than for streaming services. "High-quality" refers to both the music itself and the production of music and data storage media.

How many times have CDs and vinyl been declared dead and buried?
 
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