The REAL Problem of March Audio's Sointuva WG (Review, Measurements and Reinforcements with Klippel device)

[Mnyb]

Can you still buy them in mdf or hdf board ? I’m sure is a sucker for wood finishes, I think i’m Also guilty of suggesting this in some old tread when Alan still was member here .

But given the issues hardwood can have in any speakers not just these ! I would maybe not risk the money. And go for a safer option with a more dead material .

Thanks to the ASR members informing me of wood working issues with solid wood they seems really hard to mitigate properly maybe not even possible?

I’m sure these really are fine speakers no doubt about that .

I’m just somewhat hesitant about any speaker at all in solid hardwood nowadays given that I learned more about potential issues.

 

[Holmz]

It's just one of many tens of thousands of speakers, both from the past and the present. Don't make it out to be anything more than that.

Ok - the drivers have low distortion and compression, and installed in a box that has a good dispersion pattern.
Some of the many thousands are not performing as well.

It is like saying Sea Biscuit is just like any other horse that becomes a bottle of Elmers glue.
It has to be in the top 10%, of your 3000.

 

[restorer-john]

It has to be in the top 10%, of your 3000

No. The top 10% of all speakers include products like Yamaha's NS-10000X, the NS-1000X/M, all of the top TADs, Infinity's IRS, Beta and Kappas, along with RS-xxx series. You've got TOTL Sonys, KEFs, Martin Logans, Quad ESLs, B&Ws entire 800 range for the last 40 yeas. It includes all the best JBLs I've ever heard.

This speaker I have not heard, but it is a 2 way, PR smallish speaker. It cannot come remotely close to say even a 1980s JBL L-250ti. Not in power handling, sensitivity, bass extension, distortion across the audible bandwidth or sheer room filling SPL.

A great/excellent smallish 2 way speaker- that what it is.

 

[Holmz]

All good @restorer-john - I have heard more than just a few bad speakers, so maybe I need to get out more.

Even the good ones can sound bad sometimes… I was at a friends and he had the speaker slammed up against the wall.
I asked if I could move them, and pulled them out a 1/2 meter.
He was amazed, but he did not move them anymore after that.

 

[poxymoron]

No… I actually heard them in person, and they sounded very good. Surprisingly good bass too.

Maybe I listened to them, but I was listening to the music and the speakers just disappeared.




Well maybe there is some spread of QA as many owners seem to like them, and yet a few individuals have complaints.
Some of the well documented cases retracted their positions a bit, so it is unclear whether there is a problem with the speakers or the customer/March interactions, or something else.

I can only comment on the pair I heard, which seemed more like a sound stage… than a distinct pair of speakers.

And to say “subjectivists” is a bit on the nose, IMO.
Unless one is living under a rock, then it is literally the best objective measuring speaker that Erin and some others have measured (at least in that size/class.)
One can wax about subjective reviews all one chooses, but the objective reviews also exist… and they are screaming goodness.
The only thing that may not be good is the impulse response and step function response… or maybe those were not shown.

Granted I heard them first… subjectively, and then I awaited the objective review.
Why not use both approaches? They should correlate if we know science.

I'm not really questioning the objective quality of this speaker. Everything that I've read about it points to it being an excellent speaker objectively, and it's certainly one I would consider if I was in the market for passive bookshelves in this price range, but I prefer actives and these are beyond my budget anyway. My subjective comment was a dig at What Hifi and the people that still think that Hifi reviews begin and end with this magazine. Also a dig at manufacturers who pay for reviews. I don't trust a word What Hifi says in their reviews and most of them are solicited anyway. They can be solicited on ASR too but at least you'll get an honest objective and subjective review here, with detailed results and evidence of testing. Not so much as a photo from What Hifi of any products they review shown in their listening room or connected up to their reference system. Despite all that I do still read What Hifi but only as a news feed to find out about new products, as somebody here noted earlier. Also, I'm not suggesting that March Audio's or these speakers reputation is shot, just that it did take a hit.

 

[Holmz]

I'm not really questioning the objective quality of this speaker. Everything that I've read about it points to it being an excellent speaker objectively, and it's certainly one I would consider if I was in the market for passive bookshelves in this price range, but I prefer actives and these are beyond my budget anyway. My subjective comment was a dig at What Hifi and the people that still think that Hifi reviews begin and end with this magazine. Also a dig at manufacturers who pay for reviews. I don't trust a word What Hifi says in their reviews and most of them are solicited anyway. They can be solicited on ASR too but at least you'll get an honest objective and subjective review here, with detailed results and evidence of testing. Not so much as a photo from What Hifi of any products they review shown in their listening room or connected up to their reference system. Despite all that I do still read What Hifi but only as a news feed to find out about new products, as somebody here noted earlier. Also, I'm not suggesting that March Audio's or these speakers reputation is shot, just that it did take a hit.

I did get an Octo Research DAC8 Pro, and was leaning towards the active XO, and multiple amps
Looks like a lot of s/w required, and it went off the boil a bit.

I might relook at that and do a 3 way with the Purifi drivers, and a tweeter.

 

[Ra1zel]

The more I think about it, the more I believe the issues with the speaker have been resolved. To me it looks like one of the two or three best passive standmounts on the market.

The thing is that it's a really simple cookie cutter design, you can make the same speaker easily, get the waveguide for bliesma t25b for free from Somasonus, buy 3D printing service, get purifi drivers, put it all together and you have a better speaker with some optimization in vituixcad.

 

[Laserjock]

Cost for that?

 

[Rick Sykora]

Seems a few steps are being oversimplified too?

 

[Holmz]

The thing is that it's a really simple cookie cutter design, you can make the same speaker easily, get the waveguide for bliesma t25b for free from Somasonus, buy 3D printing service, get purifi drivers, put it all together and you have a better speaker with some optimization in vituixcad.

What is the point of making the same thing as one can buy?
Just go and buy it.

Or…

• Just do another cookie cutter design like a polk and Klipsch and call it a day.
• Save some $ and use cheaper drivers.
• Use MDF to same some drama there.

Then “bam” you’re done.

 

[Doodski]

I think it's sooperb that March Audio has geared up for and is geared up for esoteric speaker production/ fabrication. He takes cash orders for stuff that most of us would love to complete. The only issue with March Audio speakers is that they are so different and excel simultaneously at the same time.

 

[Holmz]

… He takes cash orders for stuff that most of us would love to complete...

I was thinking of making speakers… but why even start if I am not going to complete it?

I’ll just work on boxes for those subs I got a two years ago Instead.

 

[Penelinfi]

I've got plenty of half finished projects

 

[Holmz]

I've got plenty of half finished projects

Well if we do them quickly and fast, they can also be half-fast projects…

 

[Newman]

Half-finished, half-fast, half-a*sed!

 

[Holmz]

Half-finished, half-fast, half-a*sed!

With phonics, we don’t need to spell it out.

 

[Keith Conroy]

With phonics, we don’t need to spell it out.

Well here is an idea.................Work all your projects out in your head and stop there.??? It works great. When you have problems on the project you can work those out in your head too. You always have 100 percent success?? Everything done in your head?? Ya..........Hmm..........there is the downside of no new products to listen to? However there are no 1/2 finished projects to deal with...........LOL.........!!!

 

[Holmz]

Well here is an idea.................Work all your projects out in your head and stop there.??? It works great. When you have problems on the project you can work those out in your head too. You always have 100 percent success?? Everything done in your head?? Ya..........Hmm..........there is the downside of no new products to listen to? However there are no 1/2 finished projects to deal with...........LOL.........!!!

The title of the thread starts off with “Real Problems…”

Maybe contribute something “non-imaginary”?

 

[Keith Conroy]

The title of the thread starts off with “Real Problems…”

Maybe contribute something “non-imaginary”?

"Well if we do them quickly and fast, they can also be half-fast projects…" .............Here was one of your comments?? I sensed a bit of levity. So I thought I would add some levity also..........As with your comment, I didn't expect my post to be taken seriously. I spent a good share of my life designing audio for a living. So I have a non-imaginary side. I have posted as such on this website at different times in the past.

 

[Holmz]

All good @Keith Conroy - Maybe I was feeling guilty having so many 1/2 finished projects…