The "other" German Speaker Manufacturers (Canton, Magnat, Heco, Quadral, ...) - Where do they stand?

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

Another German brand that I didn't know

Fischer&Fischer SN-270 AMT​

Fischer&Fischer SN-270 AMT

Málokdo si drží tak vysoký standard napříč všemi produkty v nabídce a zároveň takovou jakousi nenápadnost a decentnost, takovou nekřiklavou důstojnost, jako výkvět německého high-endu, rodinná firma Fischer&Fischer, která reprosoustavy vyrábí již od roku 1981. A sází při tom na neobvyklý...

www.hifi-voice.com

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

German

Magnat Signature 707​

 

[Crosstalk]

I am curious to see how the new EPOS line up would sound now.. as Karl Heinz Fink took the company 2 years back. https://www.epos-loudspeakers.com/

 

[Crosstalk]

Audio physic avanti 35 looks good too (why glass ?)

That FR is horrible though! imo AP Midex is perfect!

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

That FR is horrible though! imo AP Midex is perfect!

Keep in mind that FR it's in room, in room FR looks horrible
But is not that bad either, the midex seems to be a good tower

 

[Crosstalk]

Keep in mind that FR it's in room, in room FR looks horrible
But is not that bad either, the midex seems to be a good tower

Sorry I was wrong ! https://www.audiophysic.com/wp-cont...lay-SPEZIAL-Audio-Physic-Midex_2018-12_EN.pdf

 

[Freddy]

What about German Physiks, Gauder Akustik?

 

[Crosstalk]

What about German Physiks, Gauder Akustik?

Gauder has weird freq resp and very high F3 on most of their speakers compared to other speakers in their price class.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

What about German Physiks, Gauder Akustik?

I only have this " in room " measurements
Looks good to be a in-room measurements but at the same time is not much useful a measure like this

Gauder Vescova MK II Black Edition

Jméno Rolanda Gaudera rezonuje vyššími patry high-endové světa již nějakou tu dobu, byť před rokem 2013 se tak trochu schovávalo za tehdy používanou značkou Isophon . Gauderovy kreace jsou pak snadno rozpoznatelné, zejména ta část katalogu, která používá konstrukci z vrstvených kovových...

www.hifi-voice.com

 

[Axo1989]

Audio physic avanti 35 looks good too (why glass ?)

Why glass? Audio Physic's designers have an interest in materials engineering in particular. So the cabinets are built from multi-layer including ceramic foam, plastic honeycomb, MDF, elastomer and glass (the latter an option). Different resonance behaviour for different materials and sort of the opposite from the high mass approach of Wilson et al. They de-couple drivers (from the baffle and internally via dual basket in the midrange). KEF adopted a variant of the latter approach in their recent revision. Also de-coupled are speaker terminal connections and (optional) magnetic levitation feet.

On model selection, yeah available measurements are limited but in the German publications we usually see fairly good (quasi-anechoic) on-axis frequency response but a more directional treble from the cone tweeter (by design apparently) so place and aim speakers and treat the room (if required) accordingly. The three-way Avanti and four-way Codex effectively have an internal passive downward-firing subwoofer (crossing ~100 Hz in the Codex). If you plan separate subs then the three-way Midex can be a better choice. Midex has the Codex front baffle driver arrangement plus an addition 7" bass driver and no internal sub, while on Codex the internal 10" is perhaps redundant if you add more subs (at least in a small/medium room) and the Midex is cheaper. There's also a new three-way Sparks stand-mount model (basically the top section of the Codex).

I have Codex as they were a trade-in, so cheaper for me than new Midex. No subs so the four-way with unusual bass loading is beneficial. I think their design approach gives unusually good timbre but there's no obvious way to verify that via measurements that I know of. They deliver subjectively good soundstage and imaging (if that sort of thing interests you) and I use them in a fairly dry room aimed directly at the listening position set a bit wide but not too close to the side walls. Set up that way the imaging doesn't appear to collapse dramatically as the listener moves laterally, giving a decently accomodating sweet spot.

 

[Puddingbuks]

You speak out of my sole.

I hope you mean “soul”.

 

[Martijn W]

They are not proper coaxials., They are coaxials like car stereo speakers. I mean tweeter infront of the midwoofer. its very expensive and for that price there are lot of cheaper better speakers. Are there any distoriton graphs or geithains?

The way you talk about Geithain you obviously have no experience in using them.

Personally I like my Geithain monitoring solution more than anything else. Also I am not aware of any person with true experience using Geithain questioning their superior quality.

Currently I own not only Geithain (rl944k1s+11k) but also Neumann (kh310+Kh750dsp and kh120) and PSI (A21-m v4). Previously I also owned various K+H, Barefoot, Kii Three, Genelecs, Adam and Dynaudio.

Kef r11 is less than 1 percent with THD. It can be eqed to flat without any distortions. Its 5000 Euros. Geithains are way too expensive compared to it and performs worse. 3% THD is audible. I dont see any reason why it should be prefered for any reason. UniQ has better directivity.

THD is actually very low.

musikelectronic geithain gmbh - RL 944K

www.me-geithain.de

 

[XDM]

I had the Magnat Signature 503 bookshelves and I returned them. The treble from that "High-res audio" tweeter was HARSH. Especially any kind of high drum would be uncomfortable to my ears. I tried different amps (a Yamaha and an older Marantz) and both had this result.

In better news, Quadral just (3 months ago) announced their new Chromium Style line https://www.coherent-systems.co.uk/quadural-chromium-speakers/quadral-chromium-style-2 but very few actual reviews still it seems?

 

[raest]

anybody has any experience with the Teufel Definion models? one (three, actually ) of the rare speakers with a coaxial, though from the (poor) measurements i found, it doesn't seem as good as a comparable KEF speaker. the Definion 3 is as big as the R7, but has the performance of the R5... though it's cheaper than both (half the price of R7)...

the sealed box Definion 5 seems interesting, though. not enough passive sealed floorstanders at reasonable prices these days. possibly the only one with a coax?

i'm guessing that unlike most other coaxes, these aren't as great because of the flat membrane of the mid unit, so the tweeter has no nice waveguide

 

[Puddingbuks]

Any opinions on Backes & Müller?

 

[Puddingbuks]

You speak out of my sole.

 

[restorer-john]

Sure its a international problem. But iam german and like to give my view on the proplem.

Traditionally, German magazines offered way more measured data than UK magazines. It was just hard for us single language people (english) to read. The US magazines were by far the best, especially once the Audio Precision System One came into being in about 1987/8 or so. It was a golden age of measurements until the AVR came along and specs started going out the window again and reviewers stopped caring.

The resurgence of 2 channel has brought back a renewed interest in reasonably decent measurements by a small cohort of passionate people. Will we ever see the exhaustive testing done in the past? I doubt it. Much is the pity, but it is, what it is.

 

[fallawayjay]

If you open up a canton you see no quality advantage over a KEF. I had a Vento 896 and the woofers were made of plastic and cables were were the cheapest possible ones inside. The Crossover was well made, but again with very basic components. The cabins rattled all the time with bass, although it wasnt audibly distorting anything. So, I wont equate made in Germany to quality when it comes to audio.

The 9Ks have quality parts audioquest internal wires short runs twisted, custom capicators solid as a rock construction.They are a verticle lnterated as well so hopefully it pays off for the consumer.

 

[Axo1989]

Any opinions on Backes & Müller?

Delayed reaction on my part, but they look interesting (the B&M 100 model even more so, if you are feeling lavish). Interesting approach to directivity, and years of experience doing active designs too.

 

[kadajawi]

Any opinions on Backes & Müller?

I love the BM Line 35 (having heard the 25 and 35, not sure if I have heard the Prime 8... if yes, it didn't stand out as much, or maybe the 35 was just too fantastic). Probably the best speaker I've ever heard.