The "other" German Speaker Manufacturers (Canton, Magnat, Heco, Quadral, ...) - Where do they stand?

[thewas]

That’s unfortunately the problem, not sure about KEF. Fortunaly that French shop has all parts in stock for speakers upto ls50 Meta now! Hope ins year parts of r meta also may be listed.

Yes, part availiabilty is usually an advantage with large and long tradition companies. Also the good thing on the other hand is that passive loudspeakers usually don't "wear" significantly over the years, I have several loudspeakers which are over 40 year old in my collection which all work fine.

Another thing is about warranty duration, many German brands and even bowers and Wilkins gives 10 year warranty on their upper tier speakers. 10 years of peaceful listening is a very good thing.

Which German loudspeaker brand gives currently 10 years warranty? AFAIK Elac and Quadral used to have it but it seems not anymore, the only current one I can find is the more exotic and expensive Gauder Akustik?

 

[dogmamann]

Yes, part availiabilty is usually an advantage with large and long tradition companies. Also the good thing on the other hand is that passive loudspeakers usually

Yes, part availiabilty is usually an advantage with large and long tradition companies. Also the good thing on the other hand is that passive loudspeakers usually don't "wear" significantly over the years, I have several loudspeakers which are over 40 year old in my collection which all work fine.


Which German loudspeaker brand gives currently 10 years warranty? AFAIK Elac and Quadral used to have it but it seems not anymore, the only current one I can find is the more exotic and expensive Gauder Akustik?

Quadral aurum / Canton Reference

Yes, you are absolutely right about the longevity of speakers if used right! I had speaker failures many times at home, mostly with tweeter fails after I pushed them often with amps which I thought could drive them. In those cases, sometimes it’s not just the coils of the tweeters that would fail. I had 2 incidents where the inductors connected to the tweeters also failed, and the company had not marked what the values were. If you send a 20 year old speaker to canton for such repairs, they normally fix it and give it back in a week. Most companies won’t have parts for their models from 10 years back. I don’t know about Quadral exactly though. But I have contacted fink teams old company ALR for something. They told me what could be wrong and the part to replace for a speaker 30 years old. The thing is the company wasn’t existing anymore at that point but had service possibility through FL electronic. Unfortunately that’s now shut down.

 

[thewas]

Quadral aurum / Canton Reference

I see only 5 years for Canton

"Above and beyond the legally prescribed warranty period Canton offers a guarantee of five years on all its passive loudspeakers. A two-year guarantee is offered for active speakers and partially active boxes."
Source: https://www.canton.de/en/guarantee

and unfortunately no related information at all the Quadral website (only on a dealer website), by the way Quadral was also acquired recently from another company so things might have changed.

 

[dogmamann]

I see only 5 years for Canton

"Above and beyond the legally prescribed warranty period Canton offers a guarantee of five years on all its passive loudspeakers. A two-year guarantee is offered for active speakers and partially active boxes."
Source: https://www.canton.de/en/guarantee

and unfortunately no related information at all the Quadral website (only on a dealer website), by the way Quadral was also acquired recently from another company so things might have changed.

Canton Shop

www.canton.de

Only for Reference K series. It’s good as the ceramic tungsten drivers must be more expensive than the metal ones from them.

I couldn’t find the link for Quadral registering but some time back when I checked the Aurum series has 10 years. Not the cheaper ones. Aurum is their “reference” series.

 

[thewas]

Only for Reference K series. It’s good as the ceramic tungsten drivers must be more expensive than the metal ones from them.

Yes, though I wouldn't worry about them and by the way also the cheaper "Online Exclusive" A series have them, but with 5 years warranty, its part of the premium price (same like with B&W).

 

[dogmamann]

Yes, though I wouldn't worry about them and by the way also the cheaper "Online Exclusive" A series have them, but with 5 years warranty, its part of the premium price (same like with B&W).

Leaving the debate of the distortion, I noticed that the latest karat gs from Canton doesn’t have the “distortion”. My assumption is due to the smaller ceramic driver for midrange on them. Or they have 2 midranges to share the “load”. D appo Lito has its own problems though! Elac vela on the other hand has the distortions similar to canton. Again, when I Auditioned them I never knew it had the distortion until I saw the graph.

I was seriously interested in the Quadral aurum Vulkan 8 but then I saw that horrible graph! The new versions aurum 9 has smaller midrange and hence the directivity is more even. Audio and stereoplay stopped sharing more angles after that period, so we don’t know if many of the new speakers has poor directylike them.

 

[thewas]

Leaving the debate of the distortion, I noticed that the latest karat gs from Canton doesn’t have the “distortion”. My assumption is due to the smaller ceramic driver for midrange on them. Or they have 2 midranges to share the “load”.

Yes, two drivers mean theoretically 6 dB less distortion.

D appo Lito has its own problems though!

Correct, because the requirements of D'Appolito aren't usually fulfilled.

 

[dogmamann]

Yes, though I wouldn't worry about them and by the way also the cheaper "Online Exclusive" A series have them, but with 5 years warranty, its part of the premium price (same like with B&W).

The A Series and reference 7K are similarly priced if you negotiate at a store. It’s 3900 at most places, but similar drivers. A series is slightly cheaper but it doesn’t have the “bass guide” and curved cabins but still costs 3300. if m not wrong. For 600 more, reference 7k is more flat (on par with Kef reference non metas)from midrange and up. For guys who belive in cables, reference k has better internal cabling to the drivers and better parts overall. A45 is HDF made which is not common in that price range.

 

[dogmamann]

Yes, two drivers mean theoretically 6 dB less distortion.


Correct, because the requirements of D'Appolito aren't usually fulfilled.

Sorry my bad! Yes those aren’t true dappolito!

 

[dogmamann]

Elac vela ! Good imo. March state of the art stuff no idea, but roll off on highs starts very late, meaning for people who really wants to listen to hi res, it’s possible. Many speakers don’t have necessary extension for playing a hi res audio even theoretically.

Audibility of the hi res, that’s a different thing, let’s not start that debate here again.

 

[Deleted member 61401]

Greetings! An opinion on buying speakers! Kef R 11 Meta Vs Elac Vela FS 409. Please help me I am making a huge effort and I want to make the best choice. I'm very interested in the bass part, I don't want the integration of a subwoofer. Thank you very much.

 

[Frewat]

Hi!

I was in a similar position a couple of years ago but with the old KEF R11 (non META). After I had listened and borrow home several different brands in the same price range, although the old KEF R11 was a bit cheaper then the Elac Vela fs 409, I preferred the Elac's.

The R11 are objective the better loudspeakers when it comes to distortion and following the Harman frequency curve. The directivity of the R11 are also better. The R11 are super easy to adjust the frequency response curve to your preference thanks to all that I mentioned above.
If you think they sound to "dark..." for lack of better words, you could just raise the Tremble with EQ.

Why I preferred the Elac's was because the wide soundstage, also they have a bit of a raised tremble in the 11khz to 17khz region when measured on axis at 1m with the mic position in between the tweeter and midrange. That gives the Elac's a little more detailed sound than the R11

The measurements (Vela fs 409) I've attached are measured in room at the main listening position 370cm from the front speakers. NO EQ. NO sub.

I've also attached one (the blue one) where you can see the difference the tone controls can make if you find the Elac's to bright. -3dB on the basic tremble tone controls. NO sub.

The blue and red one are both L + R.

One is measured at 1m on axis of the left loudspeaker. NO EQ

Both the 409 and the R11 have plenty of bass but I still use 2 subwoofers anyway.

If you have the possibility to borrow the loudspeakers home and listen to them in your own room, then you can make your own decision based on your own subjective opinion.

If not. The KEF is a safe bet in my opinion.

Kind regards

 

[Deleted member 61401]

Thank you for your time! I will try to listen to both. Is it a good match for the Yamaha R-N2000A?

Respectfully!

 

[Frewat]

Thank you for your time! I will try to listen to both. Is it a good match for the Yamaha R-N2000A?

Respectfully!

It shouldn't be any problem for it. If it can double the effect down to 4 ohms. In the end it depends on how big your listening room is, how far from the loudspeakers you are listening, how the sensitivity is on the loudspeakers are and how loud you listen. If you average at 85dB in an midsize room it won't be a problem.

 

[Deleted member 61401]

It's ok ?

 

[Deleted member 61401]

The listening room is 20 square meters and the listening distance is approximately 3 meters.

 

[Frewat]

The listening room is 20 square meters and the listening distance is approximately 3 meters.

View attachment 283323

It won't be a problem. With a sensitivity of 89dB at that listening distance you probably won't use more than a couple of watt.

 

[Deleted member 61401]

Thank you very much, I appreciate it. I will come back with opinions.

Regards!!

 

[dogmamann]

Greetings! An opinion on buying speakers! Kef R 11 Meta Vs Elac Vela FS 409. Please help me I am making a huge effort and I want to make the best choice. I'm very interested in the bass part, I don't want the integration of a subwoofer. Thank you very much.

It’s not possible to get bass enough in your listening spot without a subwoofer. Kef r11 has better coherence, imaging, and way low distortion than elacs . Elac has nasty distortion in highs. - this is what you will understand from graphs. In real world, the elacs are less boxy, has very high detail level and huge soundstage than the kefs. You can decide what you want.

 

[Deleted member 61401]

Nu este posibil să obțineți bas suficient în locul dvs. de ascultare fără un subwoofer. Kef r11 are o mai bună coerență, imagini și o distorsiune mult mai scăzută decât elacs. Elac are o distorsiune urâtă în înalte. - aceasta este ceea ce veți înțelege din grafice. În lumea reală, elac-urile sunt mai puțin boxy, au un nivel de detaliu foarte ridicat și un sunet uriaș decât kef-urile. Poți decide ce vrei.

Buna ziua ! Multumesc pentru raspuns. Am avut Davis Acoustics Balthus 90 și am fost foarte mulțumit în zona basului, Elac are un răspuns mai bun la bas? Am văzut că coboară la 28kz, lângă kef 46kz. Vă mulțumesc anticipat.