No, but I back ordered a R11 in December when the offers were there, so its having some delays. It will be home in 2- 3 weeks now. Currently have a Canton vento 896 and 890. I had a soft corner for Canton, but from here I learned they are not worth the money. So I upgraded to the KEFs now
Not worth the money because you don't enjoy your Cantons? Or you auditioned the KEF R11 and liked them better?No, but I back ordered a R11 in December when the offers were there, so its having some delays. It will be home in 2- 3 weeks now. Currently have a Canton vento 896 and 890. I had a soft corner for Canton, but from here I learned they are not worth the money. So I upgraded to the KEFs now
its there on the graph clearly at 3khz and clearly it should be audible. On 896 when I tried the test tones I could hear it upon raising the volume. But with music we cannot make out if its part of music or distortion. But point is then we are not hearing the orginal signal at that loudness at 2-3khz
I auditioned R11 and didnt get blew away at the store, but the thing it was bit dull. Then I noticed it had very low distortion, so eqing to bring up the highs is very much possible unlike Canton. I was really close to get another Canton but In another thread, BrokenEnglishGuy pointed out all the flaws of that model , that ended up choosing the R11. Now i look back, I wont regret, as I am 100% sure that they are much better than the ones I have now. All cantons I saw has the same flaw. Unless they fix that distotion in highs they are not worth anyones any money. ELAC or other German brands are much better in that regard. But since KEF with coaxial exists at the same price its a no brainer.
I agree that Canton speakers don't possess the most polished treble (I've had only Canton speakers like Karat and Ergo, lower end than Vento though) but they still seem quite balanced and enjoyable and the highs don't attract unnecessary attention like in case of new gen B&W and Focal speakers. Good luck with the R11 when you receive them! Would be interesting to know your impressions.
The problem is not really the peak at 100 dB but that at 90 dB it is almost as high (relatively, thus in percent).
i Wonder what happenes if we spread this news to canton forums in hifi forum.de. There are some die hard canton fans. But people who buy cantons are mostly guys who go to a showroom and listen. There it has an advantage due to no directivity like kef. I myself was about to fall into the trap, it was like day and night against the kef, Kef was more between speakers and canton was all over the place. Then after learning more I realized what we hear from kef is true and the other one is fake soundstage which isn’t present in the recording. So, we are not hearing the recording but enhanced version of it. But it was fun though.
That’s hell lot of distortion on fs 247! Lol!!! Yeah compared to r500 it has better freq resp atleast.
Look at this Quadral which only costs 1k per pair and reaches 109dB, one of the best buys currently:
www.audiosciencereview.com
Apparently there are lots of speakers from 90s and up with near flat frequencies from Germany! I am now wondering why suddenly “flat response” on stuff like revel and kef gets more momentum when they were achieved long back. I think the only thing we need to look nowadays is directivity and low distortion as in room response of flattest monitors need correction before it reaches our seat, giving no real advantage of flat from factory. Only thing matters is it should be equable without distortion coming in the way. That also means at lower volumes of listening you don’t need to spend lot to get it as many cheap speakers hit only distortion when pushed.Look at this Quadral which only costs 1k per pair and reaches 109dB, one of the best buys currently:
The "other" German Speaker Manufacturers (Canton, Magnat, Heco, Quadral, ...) - Where do they stand?
On this site and other US-focused communities you read a lot about ELAC, Neumann, Kii, and (to a lesser extent) about Adam, Hedd etc. - and rightfully so, as their speaker designs are usually well-engineered and highly regarded. In the case of Neumann and Kii they are even regarded as SOTA in...
2.8 percent distortion in highs is audible. The older Quadral I mentioned here has it lower. Why they all mess up in high freq is something of a design choice?!!Look at this Quadral which only costs 1k per pair and reaches 109dB, one of the best buys currently:
The "other" German Speaker Manufacturers (Canton, Magnat, Heco, Quadral, ...) - Where do they stand?
On this site and other US-focused communities you read a lot about ELAC, Neumann, Kii, and (to a lesser extent) about Adam, Hedd etc. - and rightfully so, as their speaker designs are usually well-engineered and highly regarded. In the case of Neumann and Kii they are even regarded as SOTA in...
Yes, but their directivity usually (exceptions exist) are not en par with some modern state of the art loudspeakers.
I agree, mind you not all use or can or want to use EQ.
Because almost nobody will listen with 100 dB in that region, please keep in mind that most music has a spectrum similar to pink noise so if you have 105dB in the bass (which is the limit of most home loudspeakers) you will have much lower level in the highs. For example many Genelecs have a limiter for the tweeter even before 100dB which gets active on such a measurement with a constant sine sweep but is never a problem with real music program.
that’s true, but in a real room, flat is not flat at listening spot. A bad response speaker may sound flat if magically the room compensates all its flaws
so, without DSP unless we are in a anechoic chamber, flat frequency from a speaker is good to see on paper at the best.
I meant something different though, that if you care only about directivity and distortion when choosing loudspeaker you will definitely need EQ also above bass, while otherwise you probably will only need it for the bass/room correction.that’s true, but in a real room, flat is not flat at listening spot. A bad response speaker may sound flat if magically the room compensates all its flaws
So in a real living room, a flat speaker needs only correction in bass at listening spot? I don’t think so, walls, furniture all add coloration in mid and highs. Even if you have the ruler flat monitor playing, at the listening spot it’s not going to reach the listening spot flat. That’s the place where speakers like Genelec with SAM works.
Above transition frequency we mainly perceive the direct sound, which is the reason why most "room corrections" don't work well in that region, see the first link in my signature. If you have a loudspeaker with flat direct sound and smooth directivity you don't really need EQ there, also if you see the Genelec GLM mainly puts just some shelving but not peak filters in that region to just adjust the tonal balance in relation to the ground tones and to compensate for the individual rooms and tastes.
After 9 years spent with FS 247 I find them one of the most precise, neutral and distortion free speakers I have heard. They were an excellent match with Exposure 2010S integral amp and I regret selling both to get Quadral Chromium Style 8 and Hegel H160 instead (a very bad match).
What is the the transition frequency ?
