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THE HI-FI SHOW IN AUSTRIA

pavuol

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Why is everything hooked up to a record player (that all look like they came from the stone age or off a passing train)?
Vienna has strong traditions attitude, lots of aristocrats in the area, lots of excess cash floating in local air,
1*zaCW5i-1ZGLY-RpZTlfsmg.gif
 

Herbert

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It is a CD player and digital processor from Italian company Omega Audio Concepts, which costs approx. €30,000 (that's thirty thousand, no typo)


We've lost the plot.
With a Philips VAM1204 mechanism which retails for $15 You can identify this mechanism by the grid structure next to the lens.
Ok, lets assume they replaced the turntable motor for another $15 to cope wit the unnecessary heavy mass.
That is 1/1000 of the price...
And Philips left CD-mechanism production around 2004 (!)
The leftover mechs were mainly sold by the company Streamunlimited in Austria
and by Nico Thevissen in the Netherlands for DIY-projects. But this was 19 years ago...
So this VAM1204 is not an original OR Omega Audio Concepts managed to dig out some old stock -
for $1000 each mech. Yes. This makes sense.
 
Last edited:

Aperiodic

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This statement is not made any truer by the fact that it is repeated so often at ASR.
Record player users should be made to look stupid, that's what it is. What a ridiculous arrogance.
I have heard many such comments at the many audio shows I have attended, both from audience members and exhibitors and seminar speakers. One well-known amplifier manufacturer began his presentation with “I think first of all, that we can agree that vinyl sounds better than digital.” Essentially everyone in the room nodded their head. Now, that was just one room at just one show, but I think it’s indicative of the prevailing sentiment. by the way, I didn’t think that expressing an opinion that audio show folks seem to favor vinyl is necessarily the same thing as calling vinyl users stupid, and perhaps that false equivalence contains a measure of ridiculous arrogance itself.
 

Karl-Heinz Fink

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The world is not only back and white. As long as you are not listening to Pink Noise only, you need to think about the music as well. I prefer to play "my" music on Vinyl because that was the medium used when it came out. Many digital versions of it have been "improved" when making the digital copy....and very often, it went wrong. And nobody knows what generation of master tape was used. One of my favourite albums (Wishbone Ash, Argus) got remastered and they sucked the life out of it. Yeah, the noise was gone, but so was the atmosphere of the recording. My old Vinyl copy of the album sounds a lot better. I'm just building myself a "new" turntable with an old TD124, SME tonearm and MM cartridge (AT20SLa) and I think I can get even closer to the old sound.
Why buy mechanical watches if you can use the phone to get the right time or the cheapest quartz watch? Why driving pick-ups with V8 engines and a suspension made for a truck? Should they not all have an electric car that drives much better and cheaper? Perfection is not always what people are looking for :oops:
 

Galliardist

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The world is not only back and white. As long as you are not listening to Pink Noise only, you need to think about the music as well. I prefer to play "my" music on Vinyl because that was the medium used when it came out. Many digital versions of it have been "improved" when making the digital copy....and very often, it went wrong. And nobody knows what generation of master tape was used. One of my favourite albums (Wishbone Ash, Argus) got remastered and they sucked the life out of it. Yeah, the noise was gone, but so was the atmosphere of the recording. My old Vinyl copy of the album sounds a lot better. I'm just building myself a "new" turntable with an old TD124, SME tonearm and MM cartridge (AT20SLa) and I think I can get even closer to the old sound.
Why buy mechanical watches if you can use the phone to get the right time or the cheapest quartz watch? Why driving pick-ups with V8 engines and a suspension made for a truck? Should they not all have an electric car that drives much better and cheaper? Perfection is not always what people are looking for :oops:
The Geffen "Expanded Edition" release of Argus is better than the other remasters, FWIW. As with a few recent examples of remasters I've heard, I think the live bonus tracks show up the actual album for sound quality, an even bigger insult in my opinion.

The vinyl is compromised by necessity - the digital is usually compromised by somebody's choice, though sometimes by the age (and generation, as you point out) of the tape.
 

HarmonicTHD

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The world is not only back and white. As long as you are not listening to Pink Noise only, you need to think about the music as well. I prefer to play "my" music on Vinyl because that was the medium used when it came out. Many digital versions of it have been "improved" when making the digital copy....and very often, it went wrong. And nobody knows what generation of master tape was used. One of my favourite albums (Wishbone Ash, Argus) got remastered and they sucked the life out of it. Yeah, the noise was gone, but so was the atmosphere of the recording. My old Vinyl copy of the album sounds a lot better. I'm just building myself a "new" turntable with an old TD124, SME tonearm and MM cartridge (AT20SLa) and I think I can get even closer to the old sound.
Why buy mechanical watches if you can use the phone to get the right time or the cheapest quartz watch? Why driving pick-ups with V8 engines and a suspension made for a truck? Should they not all have an electric car that drives much better and cheaper? Perfection is not always what people are looking for :oops:
These are two things.
1) the individual liking of a certain mix/master, composition, song etc. and therefore arguing about individual preference / liking is futile.
2) the factually proven vast inferiority of vinyl to reproduce the initially recorded signal in terms of FR, SNR, THD no matter how much money one throws at it.

Personally, I don`t like vinyl, although I grew up with it. But that's just me.

As we already have plenty of vinyl threads, I will let myself out.
 

AdrianusG

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Maybe the secret is it is pneumatically or hydraulically driven - look at all these red ... ehem ... cables? :facepalm:
I Sincerely think the next and (improved) model should be steam powered!
I really love steam punk Novels and Anime so..... yes looking forward to the Mk2 or is it Mk3 version;)
 

FINFET

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I watched the video and the reverb bothering me. I was wondering if this exhibition could be held in a cinema, as some offer many well-treated small movie halls to place those systems. Reverb already added by audio engineers/sound directors to the music tracks, some included in the original recording, often generated from a well-calculated acoustic environment like a music hall. No more reverb from listening environment needed.
Edit: or maybe just the recording mic in the video is not very good...
 

anphex

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I would love to take a stroll there, go to the weirdest looking speaker and chat up the presenter to ask him to explain in technical terms WHY this design is better than all the other speakers in the fair and watch them bend words, tonality and body language to absurd dimension.

I wonder if maybe there was one Hypex or Purifi or even Topping hidden in all the gear - or maybe even in plain sight? Would love to take an empirical almost optimal speaker (like my NuVero 170), combine them with a super clean DAC, Hypex NCX500 and FIR calibration just for the listening spot for the public and put it into eAPO + lossless music + ISO loudness correciton. I bet 1000 $ that this would wipe the floor with about everything that was on that fair.

Also that makes me think: maybe those people didn't even experience a really good measuring system in all their life? Genelec and Neumann should go to those fairs just to provide a big equalizer between all these questionable speakers and amps.
 

DonR

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I would love to take a stroll there, go to the weirdest looking speaker and chat up the presenter to ask him to explain in technical terms WHY this design is better than all the other speakers in the fair and watch them bend words, tonality and body language to absurd dimension.

I wonder if maybe there was one Hypex or Purifi or even Topping hidden in all the gear - or maybe even in plain sight? Would love to take an empirical almost optimal speaker (like my NuVero 170), combine them with a super clean DAC, Hypex NCX500 and FIR calibration just for the listening spot for the public and put it into eAPO + lossless music + ISO loudness correciton. I bet 1000 $ that this would wipe the floor with about everything that was on that fair.

Also that makes me think: maybe those people didn't even experience a really good measuring system in all their life? Genelec and Neumann should go to those fairs just to provide a big equalizer between all these questionable speakers and amps.
A quick glance at the audience would have me guessing an average hearing response of no more than 13khz tops and about 3 or 4db down across the entire band from the average person. Most of them don't even need a HiFi from the 60s. It's all in their heads and these shows are all about reinforcement of stories and mythology.
 

Karl-Heinz Fink

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I would love to take a stroll there, go to the weirdest looking speaker and chat up the presenter to ask him to explain in technical terms WHY this design is better than all the other speakers in the fair and watch them bend words, tonality and body language to absurd dimension.

I wonder if maybe there was one Hypex or Purifi or even Topping hidden in all the gear - or maybe even in plain sight? Would love to take an empirical almost optimal speaker (like my NuVero 170), combine them with a super clean DAC, Hypex NCX500 and FIR calibration just for the listening spot for the public and put it into eAPO + lossless music + ISO loudness correciton. I bet 1000 $ that this would wipe the floor with about everything that was on that fair.

Also that makes me think: maybe those people didn't even experience a really good measuring system in all their life? Genelec and Neumann should go to those fairs just to provide a big equalizer between all these questionable speakers and amps.
Obviously, you don't know who was there....so what is your intention here? Badmouth a show you did not see with visitors you don't know and with demos you did not hear?
It's starting to be challenging to take this forum seriously....at least some of the members here.
 

gsp1971

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With a Philips VAM1204 mechanism which retails for $15 You can identify this mechanism by the grid structure next to the lens.
Ok, lets assume they replaced the turntable motor for another $15 to cope wit the unnecessary heavy mass.
That is 1/1000 of the price...
And Philips left CD-mechanism production around 2004 (!)
The leftover mechs were mainly sold by the company Streamunlimited in Austria
and by Nico Thevissen in the Netherlands for DIY-projects. But this was 19 years ago...
So this VAM1204 is not an original OR Omega Audio Concepts managed to dig out some old stock -
for $1000 each mech. Yes. This makes sense.
The article says "CD-Pro2LF PHILIPS with mechanical solutions for stiffening structure, non-magnetic aluminum hollow clamp, the bottom of the flat reading unit." Is that any better in terms of cost justification?
Also no mention of the DAC chip used, just "Converter: Delta Sigma 24bit 192kHz"
 

Herbert

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The article says "CD-Pro2LF PHILIPS with mechanical solutions for stiffening structure, non-magnetic aluminum hollow clamp, the bottom of the flat reading unit." Is that any better in terms of cost justification?
Also no mention of the DAC chip used, just "Converter: Delta Sigma 24bit 192kHz"
Which article? The CD-Pro2LF was the "better" version of the VAM12XX transports with an aluminium base, but same laser and motors.
It was to be found in many European High End CD-Players (and jukeboxes), starting production around 1994 and also sold to DIYers :


But again, Philips stopped selling their transports to other companies around 2004 and left the market completely.
What is running in the Omega Audio Concept is a "replica" in the sense,
that probably the contractor still produces it - minus the aluminium base.
 

Galliardist

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Which article? The CD-Pro2LF was the "better" version of the VAM12XX transports with an aluminium base, but same laser and motors.
It was to be found in many European High End CD-Players (and jukeboxes), starting production around 1994 and also sold to DIYers :


But again, Philips stopped selling their transports to other companies around 2004 and left the market completely.
What is running in the Omega Audio Concept is a "replica" in the sense,
that probably the contractor still produces it - minus the aluminium base.
But the 2LF was introduced in 2005... I believe it was discontinued about ten years ago, but it seems some companies can still supply the final version with an asking price in the $800-1000 US range (if indeed they are genuine... do we trust anyone these days?) Maybe that contributes to the asking price for the Omega. Most links for a supplier point to Enco, and they now seem to be selling only refurbished drives for $425. It may be worth anyone buying one of those drives confirming that Omega are carrying stock for warranty repair, and the length of the warranty of course. Stocks generally must be running low by now.

In some very obscure corners of the hifi world, there are people who argue about whether the 2LF (it stands for lead free, by the way - EU regulations) or the previous 2M sounds better, and have even swapped between them in their players. I'm not sure if that is mad or not...
 

Herbert

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But the 2LF was introduced in 2005...
You are correct, my bad. "Daisy-Laser" was the Philips subsidiary that offered turnkey-ready transports / players to other companies.
According to the snapshots of the wayback machine, it was active until September 2004:
But I found some leaflets I downloaded back then, they were copyrighted 2008.
CD Pro2 LF.jpg

GyrFalcon Full metal Loader.jpg
GyrFalcon 6.jpg
GyrFalcon 8.jpg
 

Herbert

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Perhaps, for a majority of visitors, these exhibitions are about chasing after your youth:
Dreaming of things you can't afford.
 
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