Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[amirm]

In the case of cheapaudioman, he definitely has incentive to sugarcoat a product's shortcomings, and having watched some of his videos I think it kinda shows

Yeh, with some rare exceptions, he is making informericals just like Darko, Audiophiliac, Andrew, etc.

 

[Gwreck]

A thinly veiled attempt to discredit Amir and Erin as "amateur" compared to Dr. Choueri (a professional).

What he is still failing to understand is that most of the people criticizing him aren't really mad about the M-Lore and Troubadour not measuring linear, but with the fact that he threatened litigation over a simple disagreement, which Erin and Amir have already proven to be correct using real data.

For the love of...just please stop, Eric.

Enjoy Axpona and then either issue an apology video for threatening reviewers or just do nothing. You are only making this worse.

I've been on a Radiohead kick this morning and the chorus to "Just" off The Bends seems appropriate here:

You do it to yourself, you do
And that's why it really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself, just you
You and no one else
You do it to yourself

https://genius.com/Radiohead-just-lyrics

"The song was written about a narcissistic friend of Thom Yorke’s that was pissing him off..."

T

Talk about doubling down

View attachment 363586

Name dropping and hearsay are pretty weak evidence for anything. Know the way BACCH works especially with the ORC out Dr. Choueiri was probably referring to the results of BACCH.

 

[312elements]

Many reviewers, when they're sent a piece of equipment they don't care for, simply return the product to the manufacturer without review. So, I don't necessarily think a lack of negative reviews from someone hints at dishonesty on their part. I do start to question the purpose of such reviewers though? When all of their reviews kinda blend together after awhile?

In the case of cheapaudioman, he definitely has incentive to sugarcoat a product's shortcomings, and having watched some of his videos I think it kinda shows

I think the value proposition for me is that I’m introduced to gear I wouldn’t otherwise know about. Whether we’re talking about Randy, Darko, or most of the other usual suspects they offer more (to me) than their subjective opinions on sound. Being able to see products side by side in a video, hearing details about the user experience/build quality and to a lesser extent but still relevant to me… side by side comparisons of subjective evaluation.

 

[Gwreck]

Yeh, with some rare exceptions, he is making informericals just like Darko, Audiophiliac, Andrew, etc.

This makes sense that with all of the audio influencers giving glowing reviews to even the mediocre that Eric A. would be insulted that his speakers didn’t walk on water in Erin’s review.

 

[DLS79]

T

Name dropping and hearsay are pretty weak evidence for anything. Know the way BACCH works especially with the ORC out Dr. Choueiri was probably referring to the results of BACCH.

If you read some of the comments, you can see the fanboys are eating it up!

 

[Gwreck]

If you read some of the comments, you can see the fanboys are eating it up!

I have BACCH so I suspect what this comment comes from is That Dr. Choueiri has helped set up BACCH many overpriced and underperforming “audiophile” system of other BACCH owners. It seems faint praise as the a giant Tekton speaker potentially performed better than other overpriced garbage. For example “The Audiophile Junkie” who is the main influencer audiophile for BACCH these days has GR research speakers as his main speakers.

Also Dr. Choueiri may have just being complementary to someone just as a matter of conversation.

 

[squeedle]

If you read some of the comments, you can see the fanboys are eating it up!

Those that haven't been deleted...

 

[Ze Frog]

Bought and paid for? Do you have evidence to support this accusation?

Watch his videos, he asks for people to subscribe on occasion as it's his living. You will know honest reviewer's say for example Erin because he still has to work his day job and he's said before the ad revenue isn't something you can live off.

 

[musicforcities]

The only linear loudspeaker models we offer are intended for professional studio engineering and they are tools for a toolbox. Changing crossover parts values to flatten the frequency response is a super simple task; my job is to get the speaker sounding right for an audiophile. The problem is most audiophiles don't go for 'scientific sound'; to my ears, it's analytical, sterile, forward in the midrange when turned up, and frankly not much excitement to be discerned.

I hesitate to wade in here but… the above text is very clear;

1) the speakers designed by Mr Alexander can be divided into two categories based on how they are engineered for two different markets/users. One category is professional/audio production; speakers for that category should be flat/neutral, and that is what Mr Alexander’s speakers for such aim to achieve in that regard. The second category, implicitly a much larger set of products, is engineered for consumer/domestic use by a specific market or user group which he terms “audiophile.” Audiophiles don’t want or like a flat curve. Mr Alexander does not enjoy listening to flat curves much either apparently.

Let’s put to one side how one defines the “audiophile” market or that we do not know the basis for his statement about their preferences. It is not unreasonable that performance criteria for two different uses are different. Indeed, “studio monitor” speakers have long been designed to be as flat as possible and to be listened to in near field. Headphones designed for studio use are similarly designed to be flat. Or indeed, to emphasize a certain part of the spectrum, such as human vocal range, if they are intended to be used in the recording or mixing of such. Why? Because the goal is to have the most accurate reproduction possible such that one can mix, master, etc to create the recording one wants. To do so one needed a baseline…a flat response…to start with so that you could then know exactly how to control levels etc. also One that presumably works well and is reasonably close via whatever means of reproduction is going to be used. Back in the day, if a song was going to be consumed at least as much on FM radio as, say a hone turntable, mixers and masteres took into account the characteristics of fm transmission, for example.

And it’s not unreasonable to state that consumers preference are not for flat responses. eg, the “Harmon Curve” which is the result of scientific research on statistical preferences and the biology of hearing preferences that derived a non-flat target curve for consumer use headphones. Indeed, even perfect human hearing is not linear either vis a vis frequency and db level…perception of low high frequencies are especially prone to relative variation at different db levels. Hence the old “loudness” button on old receivers.

So whoever the audiophiles are, though one can surmise Mr Alexander’s preferences are similar, it’s fair enough for a designer to create a speaker that caters to what they think that market prefers. Heck, headphone companies like beats make it selling point that their products boost the bass. Lots of people seem to find them fun based of market share.

Hey, I enjoy a good smile curve eq myself.

However…

if Mr A claims that he is not designing a neutral, flat, linear etc speaker he cannot complain about a test procedure that shows that he achieved just that. kudos mr A, objective measurements have proved you are a great designer of speakers. these are indeed "fun", implicitly for "audiophile" target consumer and presuming that if one were to do a study of audiophile preferences along the lines that Harmon did of consumers and headphones, that the measured responses correlate to what that study determined "fun" preference was (as different from…non fun?).

and so what if amir prefers a different response and applies eq to flatten it somewhat…to the extent possible.

By your own statements, you should be thanking Amir rather than complaining. You should quote the review on your website! and make sure to also tell your target audiophile consumer that you design speakers to be inaccurate in all the ways that you and they prefer! Publish those curves!

One point of clarification: at 8 feet away, does my amount of fun decrease if I don’t listen with my ears on axis and level to the woofers? If, for example, want dance, cause these are so fun, should I raise my speakers higher? And I guess I can only dance in one place given the off axis response…or do I need to interpret the off axis graphs differently according to audiophile fun preference and do they get even more fun off axis?

Cause I’m an Audiophile fun sorta guy.

 

[Ninjastar]

Name dropping and hearsay are pretty weak evidence for anything. Know the way BACCH works especially with the ORC out Dr. Choueiri was probably referring to the results of BACCH.

Yeah, why is it

"Our client David in Boise ID called to inform me that Dr. Edgar Choueiri..."

and not

"Here are measurements taken by Dr. Edgar Choueiri..."?

This, sending over the raw driver response for that Eminence woofer, and how he said he was waiting on Jay Lee to send him NRC measurements of his own speakers (did he ever produce these?) are just more evidence to cast doubt that Eric has any measurements of his own.

It's like pulling teeth just to get actual measurements from him when that is the main area of dispute here.

 

[amirm]

The second category, implicitly a much larger set of products, is engineered for consumer/domestic use by a specific market or user group which he terms “audiophile.” Audiophiles don’t want or like a flat curve. Mr Alexander does not enjoy listening to flat curves much either apparently.

Problem is, advertising for the speaker says otherwise:

Not just "linear" (flat response) but "extremely linear!" He has not shown a single measurement to show what the response is of the speaker or heck, for those monitors he claims to have flat response. It is all typical distorted marketing statements with no backing. I mean even that 95 dB sensitivity is highly suspect. My measurements show that to be very much exaggerated.

To be sure, audio is wild west and a lot of companies do this. But they don't go threatening people with lawsuits when they measure and show the claims to be false.

 

[Ze Frog]

I think the value proposition for me is that I’m introduced to gear I wouldn’t otherwise know about. Whether we’re talking about Randy, Darko, or most of the other usual suspects they offer more (to me) than their subjective opinions on sound. Being able to see products side by side in a video, hearing details about the user experience/build quality and to a lesser extent but still relevant to me… side by side comparisons of subjective evaluation.

Yeah, it's good for seeing the latest stuff and what's new. I should add I hold no malice to any of these people, I just see them for what they are 'influencers' and marketing. If you watch a lot of these people often you will notice the 'subjective' comparisons can actually contradict themselves over time. It's especially interesting when you see something truly bad, like really bad that's effectively broken like the FIIO's Erin reviewed. Meanwhile elsewhere the hype engine was at max rev's.

 

[Gwreck]

Problem is, advertising for the speaker says otherwise:

Not just "linear" (flat response) but "extremely linear!" He has not shown a single measurement to show what the response is of the speaker or heck, for those monitors he claims to have flat response. It is all typical distorted marketing statements with no backing. I mean even that 95 dB sensitivity is highly suspect. My measurements show that to be very much exaggerated.

To be sure, audio is wild west and a lot of companies do this. But they don't go threatening people with lawsuits when they measure and show the claims to be false.

It’s not “Linear” it’s L) in ear.

 

[olieb]

It is all typical distorted marketing statements with no backing.

I don't think it is even a statement, it's more or a feeling.
Of course are these speakers "extremely" linear (the good kind of linear) and not flat, boring linear (the bad kind). The difference you and I don't even have a clue about.
But for him and his clientele it is as clear as night and day. It is a feeling!

 

[Buckchester]

On tweeter axis or on woofer axis?

What about the feet? The FEET!

 

[doug s.]

What a mess this has become. I have had many correspondences with Erin (and also Amir) and while they have different approaches and different personalities, they both seek the same thing, truth in audio. In my professional opinion, this is highly valuable. Both of them are tremendous assets to the audio community, both are highly qualified to do and continue to do what they are doing. I had my doubts many years ago, but those doubts were quickly cast aside with multiple zoom calls with Klippel engineers to learn about the NFS.

As a manufacturer, I find this entire situation incredibly disturbing. Reviewers are going to be scared to review products, manufacturers might become emboldened to stop reviewers. Lose-Lose!

It likely isn't appropriate, but I am going to donate to Erin's Patreon and offer Eric a free consultation regarding the NFS and even some free NFS measurements. Since I am not a reviewer, measurement results would be private. Eric might be more inclined to learn or accept things from this approach. I don't think anyone wants to see this destruction continue at this point.

It would be better if Warkwyn (US Klippel distributor) handled the consultation and measurements, but I doubt Warkwyn would offer this service for free. Perhaps if I reached out to them? I don't know... Let's first see if Eric is open to this.

@Eric Alexander , please feel free to contact me privately. I promise, all correspondence between you and I will be fully confidential.

i wouldn't offer eric a freaking thing - unless he does a complete about-face and apologizes here, on his own website, and on erin's sites - completely and totally.

doug s.

 

[doug s.]

I’m not on Facebook, but Eric Alexander allows plenty of information to be publicly viewable. I found this post which I think gives an insight into his character.


View attachment 363194

He thinks that he is a maverick “expert“, and likes to arrogantly throw shade at the real experts and scientists. I imagine he mainly lives in a bubble of people not questioning his “expertise”. Two science-based reviews quite close together will have seriously dented that curated facade. His arrogance only allows for one type of response…

the expression i've heard is "he's a legend in his own mind"

doug s.

 

[Matt_Holland]

On tweeter axis or on woofer axis?

Which tweeter? lol!

 

[DWPress]

I've been away for a week on a trip and come back to my favorite forum full of this crap? Wow. Not in the market for speakers but Tektons would never make the list just based on the owners behavior. Dignity, honor and ethics still count for some of us.

 

[musicforcities]

Problem is, advertising for the speaker says otherwise:

Not just "linear" (flat response) but "extremely linear!" He has not shown a single measurement to show what the response is of the speaker or heck, for those monitors he claims to have flat response. It is all typical distorted marketing statements with no backing. I mean even that 95 dB sensitivity is highly suspect. My measurements show that to be very much exaggerated.

To be sure, audio is wild west and a lot of companies do this. But they don't go threatening people with lawsuits when they measure and show the claims to be false.

Umm…just so my intent is not misunderstood…I’m with Amir.

I was just pointing out the specious logic of Mr Alexander’s complaint. He can’t have it both ways.

A widely accepted measurement based testing protocols and performance criteria were used to test something, in good faith and transparency.

There is zero legal ground here. So the threats are bullying. And lawsuit is at best a SLAP suit. Indeed, reviewers subject to such tactics may have better grounds for their own action were a suit to be filed depending on jurisdiction of filing.

But for sure, the chilling effect is real.

I’m sorry Amir is dealing with it.