Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[Ron Texas]

This thread has become repetitive.

 

[LTig]

Feel free to contact me by email. I'll have to find the data for you, I am a bit unorganized right now, but I will make it happen. And yes, theoretically, you should be able to correct for this by comparing the 2 measurements. We actually do this all the time so we can get more accurate production line measurements.

You are a real gentleman, helping a competing company to make better speakers. This is such a great forum.

 

[René - Acculution.com]

Well, the claim is "perfect" but that's quite vague, not specifying "perfect" with regard to which aspect of a step response.

Yes, for a two-way system, I guess perfect would mean (s+w0)/(s+w0) transfer function, and clearly he will not have that. I am just interested in seeing if any change can be noted for the new axis, since this is seemingly a point of contention here.

 

[HeadDoc12]

Been watching this trainwreck the last few days - as a manufacturer myself I've tried to stay out of it.

I would still like to say this:
While I don't think Eric could have handled this much worse, he is still a person, a human being.

I can only imagine the immense pressure he is under right now, with thousands of negative messages (at this point mostly repeating themselves) across several different audioforums, threads/comments on various social media, as well as several youtube videos about this topic. Many of you will probably go "But he brought this upon himself", and while that may be the case, he is still a person, currently seeing his world falling apart around him. Please relent.

He is currently trying to respond and react to this in some form or fashion, and while we may still disagree to his perspective - can we please try to ease up a little bit, at least not keep repeating the same points and hammering the man to the ground? I think he has got the point by now. While I do not agree with his position or the way he has handled this, I still feel bad for him. As he points out, at the end of the day he is a person passionate about the same things we are.

@amirm So did you measure the Tekton with the tweeter as the reference axis? If that is the case, I see how that would at least yield a different result than the woofer. Which measurement will look better I guess we don't know until someone has the opportunity to measure it on the woofer axis.

@Eric Alexander If you think the speaker will measure better with a different reference axis (on the woofer as opposed to the tweeter?), I think the only reasonable way forward here is to send Amir a new unit so he can re-measure it according to your specifications. As you also point out this is not your end game, top of the line model. It is a reasonably priced speaker and an old design. So perhaps accept (rather than contest) that it will not measure perfectly. People may still enjoy it for what it is.

What makes you think he has got the point by now? He continues to refuse to offer ANY data or to apologize for his behavior at all, and he continues to lie about what he meant by litigation, among other things. His entire agenda from the moment this began up to now has been to try to deceive and manipulate, to turn all of this to his advantage, or at least minimize the damage to his brand. Just because someone genuinely feels victimized doesn’t make it true. If he were just another random forum member like me, I might be ready to ease up and offer sympathy and compassion. But he has power and influence, and continues to try to use these things to help himself at the expense of Amir and others. In other words, he is still actively trying to cause harm. I will back off when he does, and no sooner. And he is not passionate about the same things we are. We are passionate about the use of state of the art scientific tools to maximize sound quality. That involves lots of debate, reflection, and rethinking. He has shown zero flexibility or interest in the data, strongly suggesting that he is passionate about two things: money and reputation.

 

[markus]

I understand that this is war, a battle.....but this is a meaningful difference. it is a pretty broadband 1.5dB-ish EQ boost in the treble, and suddenly the crossover doesn't look that broken anymore. also, the dispersion graphs would look better in that area.

Huh? Speaker dispersion does not change the slightest just because the 0 degree reference point has been moved.

 

[DrDardis]

New pinned comment and reply just dropped. He's not suing though

 

[voodooless]

This thread has become repetitive.

Yes, several people have pointed that out

 

[solderdude]

I understand that this is war, a battle.....but this is a meaningful difference. it is a pretty broadband 1.5dB-ish EQ boost in the treble, and suddenly the crossover doesn't look that broken anymore. also, the dispersion graphs would look better in that area.

The crossover is at 3kHz and does not seem to be very broken. At 2.5kHz the mid-woofer seems to have a bump... and is not very linear overall either.

What's obvious though that nearfield there is no 700Hz bump but further away there is.

 

[mlsstl]

How many people have read this thread?

How many people have looked at the Youtube vidoes about this issue?

Potentially he has put off side a quarter of of a million customers.

Not sure exactly what you mean in your last sentence. Something tells me that Tekton is not a company that has sold or could sell a quarter million sets of speakers. And I also suspect that the ASR membership was never going to be a big part of Tekton's customer base. My primary point is that the original review be itself probably had little impact on the sales performance of the Mini Lore. It's been the owner's own responses since that have generated the adverse publicity. Talk about a self-inflicted wound! But, as noted, since there are still many subjective audiophiles that don't think much of ASR, Tekton still has many potential buyers assuming they aren't put off by the owner's behavior.

 

[Snickers-is]

I think you might be confusing the Klippel NFS with one of the many other Klippel measurement devices.

I am talking about 2 different Klippel systems. NFS is for so called Spinorama-measurements, and the large signal analyzer is for driver parameters. They are for totally different purposes, but neither of them are necessarily giving you exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Somafunk]

He's controlling the narrative about as well as I can control my bowels after eating a half-gallon of ice cream.

You owe me a new keyboard

 

[Snickers-is]

There is no no "debate" about the Klippel NFS's efficacy. Don't attempt to intimate there is.

Yes there is. Amirm made a statement that the NFS is something that any serioust manufacturer has to use. I disagree on that.

And a Klippel analyser is not required to determine the concentricity of a voice coil is it? A Dayton DATS V3 can do that for $129.98 (USD)...

My DATS V3 does not have such functionality. It only measures the impedance, and it does not have nearly enough power to reach the excursion levels necessary to test the centering.

Throwing shade isn't going to happen.

What?

 

[markus]

I am talking about 2 different Klippel systems. NFS is for so called Spinorama-measurements, and the large signal analyzer is for driver parameters. They are for totally different purposes, but neither of them are necessarily giving you exactly what you are looking for.

It's off topic in this thread but I beg to differ. The Klippel NFS gives me exactly what I'm looking for when I'd like to assess speaker dispersion. Just modelling diffraction is not nearly good enough.

 

[markus]

Yes there is. Amirm made a statement that the NFS is something that any serioust manufacturer has to use. I disagree on that.

Depends on your level of sophistication as a speaker designer. Alternatively you can use an anechoic chamber. Which is more practical?

What?

Your initial post can be perceived as casting doubt onto the usefulness of using a Klippel NFS for measuring objective characteristics of a loudspeaker.

 

[Snickers-is]

Depends on your level of sophistication as a speaker designer. Alternatively you can use an anechoic chamber. Which is more practical?

I rarely find that I need lots of anechoic measurements during the development period.

Your initial post can be perceived as casting doubt onto the usefulness of using a Klippel NFS for measuring objective characteristics of a loudspeaker.

That was not my intention. My point was that I do not think using NFS or not is what separates a good company from a bad one.

 

[teched58]

There is likely a very good reason Eric Alexander hasn't responded or said anything specific about the measurements:

It's probably because, other than simple frequency response plots,

ERIC ALEXANDER IS NOT CONVERSANT WITH AND CAN NEITHER READ NOR UNDERSTAND SPEAKER MEASUREMENTS.

It someone asked Eric to explain impedence plots, spectral decay plots or a step response, his only answers would be (pick one):

a) Oh the agony of de feet
b) Wrong axis. move it up, down, sideways. Do the hokey pokey.
c) You didn't ask me for permission. Solly, Solly, Solly, Solicit, Solicited

 

[Mnyb]

The point is not "use a klippel" but understanding the science and implications of CEA2034 standard ( which i don't fully do , but i expect speaker designers to get it ) you can make spinorama like measurements with other methods , like a classical anechoic chamber and a lot of foot work and time moving the speaker and mic around .

IF you are commercial operation with time limits you can use a product such as Klippel NSF for faster turnaround and prototyping . Time is money it might not even be expensive in that perspective if sales and manufacturing staff are sitting on their hands waiting for the new product ?

 

[DSJR]

The crossover is at 3kHz and does not seem to be very broken. At 2.5kHz the mid-woofer seems to have a bump... and is not very linear overall either.

What's obvious though that nearfield there is no 700Hz bump but further away there is.

My take here would be to get in touch with Eminence, which I gather makes the bass-mid driver to see if they do a different model that has a smoother response

A technique over here is to dope the paper cone in various ways to some advantage [Tannoys larger drivers added ribs to the back of said cone - 'Girdacoustic' I think it was called]. JBL do it in the famous mid driver as used in the current and L100 and others and I'm sure it helped a bit?

 

[CleanSound]

Whoa! So you started this?

I wish, but no I didn't. I read on Erin's Facebook group that he had long asked Eric Alexander for a pair for review, Eric Alexander originally said yes but then ghosted Erin. So I knew Eric Alexander has no plans to send anything to Erin because he knew Erin was going to measure it and Eric Alexander does not want his speakers to be measured.

I intentionally made that comment because I already knew Eric Alexander is scared of his speakers being measured.

 

[Darthprater]

Not sure if this has been posted…but man. Eric; you’re shooting holes in your own ship. Stop. Just zoom out, man. You’re killing your company.