Swissonic A305

[Swamper]

No problems with Edifier MR4, so engineering Problem of the swissonics.

Right, maybe the inclusion of unbalanced connectors was a mistake on Thomanns side. My V7's had similar route to b-stock as your monitors, as they were mint. Atleast thats what I strongly believe.

Prehaps why they also dont really want to keep these in stock, cheap monitors which would require balanced inputs is a bad combo without customer knowledge.

 

[Giangy11]

Can a RCA to xlr cable resolve the issue?

 

[test1223]

Can a RCA to xlr cable resolve the issue?

No.

You need a true symmetric signal or another way to handle potential differences. A symmetrical connection isn't a guarantee that you don't hear the ground loop, but it solves the issue most of the time.

It is a pity that the engineers on both sides of the signal source and signal sink are aware of the ground loop problem but never the less it is still a very common problem.

 

[testp]

it is wierd, that powered speakers that have noise issues from ground loops, have ground for powercables and probably without that ground, ground noise would dissapear, common sense would make me think it should be the other way around, but im no electrician

 

[Giangy11]

No.

You need a true symmetric signal or another way to handle potential differences. A symmetrical connection isn't a guarantee that you don't hear the ground loop, but it solves the issue most of the time.

It is a pity that the engineers on both sides of the signal source and signal sink are aware of the ground loop problem but never the less it is still a very common problem.

I bought on amazon a pair of rca-xlr cables, just for fun (11€)..I'll try and let you know if resolve the issue for any reason

 

[Basic Channel]

No.

You need a true symmetric signal or another way to handle potential differences. A symmetrical connection isn't a guarantee that you don't hear the ground loop, but it solves the issue most of the time.
.

Can you elaborate on this for an idiot? What is a symmetrical connection and what (speaker, laptop, etc) needs to be symmetrically connected?

 

[somebodyelse]

You need a true symmetric signal or another way to handle potential differences. A symmetrical connection isn't a guarantee that you don't hear the ground loop, but it solves the issue most of the time.

Can you elaborate on this for an idiot? What is a symmetrical connection and what (speaker, laptop, etc) needs to be symmetrically connected?

This could be tricky - it causes confusion even among people with a fair bit of electronics skill. The AES-48 standard was written because so many manufacturers were getting it wrong. If you have some understanding of electronics then refer to Bruno's The G Word, or for wider coverage Whitlock's AN007 from https://www.jensen-transformers.com/application-notes/ - I had to reread a few times for it to sink in. If not I can try to explain...

Balanced connections have a 'hot', a 'cold' and a ground connection. The signal is the difference between hot and cold, and ground is not part of the signal. I'm not sure whether @test1223 has a common misconception, or whether something is lost in translation. The misconception would be that hot and cold have to carry mirror image signals - when hot is going up cold is going down. This isn't necessary to avoid ground related noise. There are two main reasons a balanced input may not stop you hearing ground-related noise (classic loop hum, 'usb noise' etc.).

1. The designer messed up the balanced input design, commonly referred to as a 'pin 1 problem' - usually by failing to follow AES-48.
2. The ground related noise is getting into the signal further up or down the signal chain.

 

[modes]

No problems with Edifier MR4, so engineering Problem of the swissonics.

Either both of your a305 are broken in an identical manner or some part your system sucks. I've ran mine from all kinds of unholy devices such as integrated realtek, uca202 etc - no hum ever.

 

[Giangy11]

I bought on amazon a pair of rca-xlr cables, just for fun (11€)..I'll try and let you know if resolve the issue for any reason

Ok I tried but nothing changed with RCA to xlr cables, still ground loop noise same as before. So I went back to RCA cables and plug the power cord without the ground connector, I now it's not super safe, but it's the only way I found to remove this noise

 

[olymind1]

Swissonic V5 - 79 € at Thomann's.

 

[janis.81]

No.

You need a true symmetric signal or another way to handle potential differences. A symmetrical connection isn't a guarantee that you don't hear the ground loop, but it solves the issue most of the time.

It is a pity that the engineers on both sides of the signal source and signal sink are aware of the ground loop problem but never the less it is still a very common problem.

Hello:
Did you tried to plug all unused inputs with dummy load plugs. (basically soldering bridge betwen input pins - in order to mage resistance betwen signal leads to be 0 Ohms
This must correct most input noise problems in all typical audio systems.

See explanation below:
Build Your Own 150 ohm XLR Plug for Testing Preamp Noise

Microphones: Noise 2
https://www.audiotechnology.com/tutorials/microphones-noise-2

 

[Jimbob54]

Hello:
Did you tried to plug all unused inputs with dummy load plugs. (basically soldering bridge betwen input pins - in order to mage resistance betwen signal leads to be 0 Ohms
This must correct most input noise problems in all typical audio systems.

See explanation below:
Build Your Own 150 ohm XLR Plug for Testing Preamp Noise

Microphones: Noise 2
https://www.audiotechnology.com/tutorials/microphones-noise-2

Please don't create identical posts, especially not in the same thread. Just tag the users you want to see it in the one post. Thanks.

Also, are you sure your post is relevant to the issues posters are having?

 

[Plompudu]

These are the control measurements from the end of the tuning process. I would love to offer something more precise, but ground-plane measurements are the best I can do in our workshop.

@KLang1 Could you also provide Distortion / Compression Measurements and Nearfield measurements for the Bass response of the V series and the A308?
The V8 or A308 look like a very good choice for my upstairs setup!

 

[ninetylol]

I just got the A305 and got TERRIBLE ground loop sounds when connected to onboard sound via 3,5mm to RCA.

Its the most terrible ground loop Ive ever heard, like 50db squeaking and hum - i can even hear mouse movements through the speakers. Any possible solution without buying (which i wont) a balanced DAC ?

EDIT: man this is terrible, this is pretty much totally unusable - never had such a fucked up product.

I gave the A305 another chance, now that i have an balanced DAC and a Kali WS-6.2. With a sub and added EQ this lands the A305 on a 8.5 preference rating, which is near state of the art. Only Genelecs and Neumanns get a bit higher. Oh and yeah without ground loops this think works and slaps!

I still cant speak only bliss though, one of my a305 was DOA and played no signal at all. Same thing happened to my A306 i ordered in the past. tldr the quality control must be terrible, thank god thomann is a really good shop.

so here i am listening to one A305 and waiting for my replacement.

 

[ninetylol]

Replacement arrived, and stereo sound is - as expected - great!

Pretty awesome to get such good quality sound for 220€ no amp required. Too bad you need to add another 200 bucks for a balanced DAC/interface. Isnt it stupid, that 90% of active speakers dont got a digital input but always need another AD conversion?

 

[ninetylol]

FYI my A305 got a big drop at 1khz about 5db.. dont really know why but its really bad. My Edifier MR4 does this a lot better.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Weird - this area is not anywhere near crossover, and neither would I expect a 5" class woofer to have trouble there. Do they also do this when placed on a stool or something in the middle of the room? Have you checked the position of the rear DIP switches for room correction?

BTW - you should get better measurements by using the Moving Microphone Method.

Too bad you need to add another 200 bucks for a balanced DAC/interface.

You can get a serviceable audio interface for half that. And if you insist, you can get away substantially cheaper still... I'm running my onboard audio into a Behringer HD400 and then into my monitors, total cost somewhere in the 40s of €...

Isnt it stupid, that 90% of active speakers dont got a digital input but always need another AD conversion?

I mean, it would be hard to sell these things without any analog inputs at all. Presumably a bunch of the cheap ones are based on single-chip DSPs with built-in ADC and DAC, think ADAU1701.

 

[ninetylol]

Weird - this area is not anywhere near crossover, and neither would I expect a 5" class woofer to have trouble there. Do they also do this when placed on a stool or something in the middle of the room? Have you checked the position of the rear DIP switches for room correction?

BTW - you should get better measurements by using the Moving Microphone Method.


You can get a serviceable audio interface for half that. And if you insist, you can get away substantially cheaper still... I'm running my onboard audio into a Behringer HD400 and then into my monitors, total cost somewhere in the 40s of €...

I mean, it would be hard to sell these things without any analog inputs at all. Presumably a bunch of the cheap ones are based on single-chip DSPs with built-in ADC and DAC, think ADAU1701.

I havent tried them on stands, because i dont have any space, but the MR4 dont have that problem at the same location. A305 measurements were done with MMM+RTA, i couldnt believe my eyes either.

I thought about the Behringer HD400 too, is it working good for you?

 

[AnalogSteph]

I thought about the Behringer HD400 too, is it working good for you?

No major complaints for the last 10 years. It's obviously a rather low-impedance affair and should be driven by something that does not mind a 600 ohm load and sports low output impedance, and CMRR does noticeably worsen towards the high frequencies (but that seems to be par for the course for these lower-impedance line transformers). In return it can drive a modest length of cable on the output side although I would stick to a maximum of about 1.5 m if you can help it. It is not symmetrical in terms of direction - going through it backwards output to input poses a lighter load but presents substantial ultrasonic ringing. Frequency response was not lacking for bass, and distortion seemed entirely unconcerning around the 1 Vrms mark (although my soundcard at the time has a rather low 22 ohm output impedance, which would affect performannce on the low end).

 

[ninetylol]

No major complaints for the last 10 years. It's obviously a rather low-impedance affair and should be driven by something that does not mind a 600 ohm load and sports low output impedance, and CMRR does noticeably worsen towards the high frequencies (but that seems to be par for the course for these lower-impedance line transformers). In return it can drive a modest length of cable on the output side although I would stick to a maximum of about 1.5 m if you can help it. It is not symmetrical in terms of direction - going through it backwards output to input poses a lighter load but presents substantial ultrasonic ringing. Frequency response was not lacking for bass, and distortion seemed entirely unconcerning around the 1 Vrms mark (although my soundcard at the time has a rather low 22 ohm output impedance, which would affect performannce on the low end).

I didnt understand 80% of what you said, but my HD400 arrived and its working as intended (removed coil whine/ground loop). Theres still a little bit of hum, which wasnt there before, so its introducing some noise too. I have to touch the device for the hum to go away. Meh.