Subwoofer Comparison

[starfly]

Can anyone recommend me a subwoofer setup for this space? The blue rectangle represents the couch i'll be sitting on, and the blue lines is where I have my speakers setup in an equilateral triangle relative to my listening position (each speaker 10ft from listening position, and 10ft apart). Thinking of putting a sub in the corner to the left of the fireplace/blue lines. Otherwise Kitchen/Dining Room/Living Room all one big open space with high ceilings.

Currently leaning towards the Hsu VTF2-MK5 sub. Will be primarily for music listening.

 

[ryanmh1]

Can anyone recommend me a subwoofer setup for this space? The blue rectangle represents the couch i'll be sitting on, and the blue lines is where I have my speakers setup in an equilateral triangle relative to my listening position (each speaker 10ft from listening position, and 10ft apart). Thinking of putting a sub in the corner to the left of the fireplace/blue lines. Otherwise Kitchen/Dining Room/Living Room all one big open space with high ceilings.

Currently leaning towards the Hsu VTF2-MK5 sub. Will be primarily for music listening.

Two smaller subs will probably do more for you in terms of helping to level out response and not dealing with major room modes. It it's just music though, you might be able to EQ around major issues. There's no definite guidelines here unless you want to put it in a corner or along a wall for boundary gain.

 

[starfly]

Two smaller subs will probably do more for you in terms of helping to level out response and not dealing with major room modes. It it's just music though, you might be able to EQ around major issues. There's no definite guidelines here unless you want to put it in a corner or along a wall for boundary gain.

I think something like 2x 10" subs will be challenging to place. One 12" sub can just go in the left corner basically where it's a bit more out of sight. Perhaps I'll just try that.

 

[audioje]

RSL 10e is in stock. Just ordered one.

 

[starfly]

Ok I got my Hsu sub, using it through my Yamaha AVR. Looks like it works best with music by setting my two main floor standers to small (Revel F206) and crossover to something (have it set at 60hz for now) and that activates the sub always when playing music. Otherwise it only activates with actual 5.1+ content.

So far I’m digging how deep it digs.

What’s generally considered a good crossover point?

 

[sonitus mirus]

Ok I got my Hsu sub, using it through my Yamaha AVR. Looks like it works best with music by setting my two main floor standers to small (Revel F206) and crossover to something (have it set at 60hz for now) and that activates the sub always when playing music. Otherwise it only activates with actual 5.1+ content.

So far I’m digging how deep it digs.

What’s generally considered a good crossover point?

Based on my not very technically-inclined opinion on what I see from the measurements, I would go a bit higher at around 80Hz.

Revel F206 Tower Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ, and detailed measurements of the Revel F206 Floor-standing speaker. It is on kind loan from a member (new) and costs US $1347.50 each. Please excuse the mobile phone picture quality and plastics that are still on the speaker. I try to keep products as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[starfly]

Based on my not very technically-inclined opinion on what I see from the measurements, I would go a bit higher at around 80Hz.

Revel F206 Tower Speaker Review

This is a review, listening tests, EQ, and detailed measurements of the Revel F206 Floor-standing speaker. It is on kind loan from a member (new) and costs US $1347.50 each. Please excuse the mobile phone picture quality and plastics that are still on the speaker. I try to keep products as...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yeah that would make sense, but I almost felt like it sounds a bit better crossed at 60hz than 80hz. The bass sounded slightly more stereo that way (and I know that bass isn't really supposed to be that directional, but crossed at 60hz made it sound slightly fuller overall).

 

[ExPerfectionist]

I have mine crossed over at 90 or 100Hz, after using REW and doing measurements, finding that there's more cancellation and a sizeable dip when crossed at 80 or 60Hz. My speakers are very bass capable, but this XO gives the smoothest frequency response.

 

[audioje]

Received rsl 10e. I don't think I need anything better. Was going to order one more but one is already powerful enough for my livingroom.

 

[starfly]

I am probably going from a Hsu VTF2-MK5 to 2x RSL 10S MKII. Ran a bunch of measurements and I overall get a flatter bass response. The 2 smaller subs also provide a little bit more flexibility with positioning, vs one larger 12" sub (for aesthetic reasons).

So after a bit of experimenting with placement and crossover settings on my Denon AVR, these are the final measurements I arrived at (ran a sweep through 500hz, mainly concerned about low-end):

This is overall the flattest response I could get (measured in REW with a Umik-1). Practically impossible to eliminate the dips without putting the subs in some very unaesthetically pleasing positions. I have the Front crossover set to 150hz which gave me the best results. Setting the crossover lower started giving a less flat response in the sub 100hz region.

This was the final layout:

 

[sonitus mirus]

Wow, nice. Your reflection dip around 64Hz is very mild compared to many similar measurements in a room that wide. Guessing the ceiling is not slanted or not much over 8 feet? Me, I want to do something about that 80Hz-100Hz. That is my wheelhouse in hearing for movies and music. EQ should be effective at that frequency.

Edit: To be clear, I am jealous, that is a very nice response.

 

[CrypticSignal]

@sweetchaos
I'm working on a simple web app to compare subwoofers using the data in your spreadsheet. You can select as many subwoofers as you want and it will create a graph to compare the output of the subwoofers and create a table where you can compare the exact SPL values. You can also filter by make to find the subwoofer(s) you're looking for quickly.

It's a work in progress but here's a screenshot:

I am having a particular issue and there is something that might do the trick. Could you open your spreadsheet, then go to File > Share > Publish to web. Then, in the dropdown menu where "Entire Document" is selected by default, could you select the CEA-2010-A sheet and PM me the URL it gives you?

 

[starfly]

Wow, nice. Your reflection dip around 64Hz is very mild compared to many similar measurements in a room that wide. Guessing the ceiling is not slanted or not much over 8 feet? Me, I want to do something about that 80Hz-100Hz. That is my wheelhouse in hearing for movies and music. EQ should be effective at that frequency.

Edit: To be clear, I am jealous, that is a very nice response.

I actually ended up re-arranging my subs, as the one to the right was in the hallway and blocking me from opening the basement door fully. A slightly less ideal placement, but I needed to compromise for practical and aesthetic reasons.

In the process I did a comparison of Audyssey and Dirac Live Bass Control, and in the end I got a better result with Audyssey. Will be requesting a refund for DLBC, really not worth the $800.

 

[CrypticSignal]

My web app which allows you to compare the CEA-2010-A output of subwoofers on @sweetchaos's spreadsheet is now live if anyone is interesting in using it. I have not developed it for mobile devices so it is highly preferable that you use the website on a computer. Here's the link: https://crypticsignal.github.io/subwoofer-comparison

The code is open-source so anyone can contribute and improve. Here's the GitHub repository: https://github.com/CrypticSignal/subwoofer-comparison

The tables could be nicer but the most important thing to me was getting the functionality sorted.

 

[Smitty2k1]

I have one SVS SB-1000 PRO connected to my Denon x3500h AVR. I'm considering a second subwoofer. Is there any reason I need another SVS SB-1000 PRO or would the regular SVS SB-1000 (not-PRO) suffice?

 

[starfly]

I have one SVS SB-1000 PRO connected to my Denon x3500h AVR. I'm considering a second subwoofer. Is there any reason I need another SVS SB-1000 PRO or would the regular SVS SB-1000 (not-PRO) suffice?

Usually best to get identical subs.

 

[CrypticSignal]

I have one SVS SB-1000 PRO connected to my Denon x3500h AVR. I'm considering a second subwoofer. Is there any reason I need another SVS SB-1000 PRO or would the regular SVS SB-1000 (not-PRO) suffice?

Ideally you want the same subwoofer, but they are close enough in terms of output capability that pairing them is fine. I have paired my old PB-1000 with a PB-1000 Pro. Comparing Brent Butterworth's measurements, there is only a 0.4dB to 1.3dB difference in CEA-2010-A 2m peak SPL, depending on the frequency.

 

[Smitty2k1]

Ideally you want the same subwoofer, but they are close enough in terms of output capability that pairing them is fine. I have paired my old PB-1000 with a PB-1000 Pro. Comparing Brent Butterworth's measurements, there is only a 0.4dB to 1.3dB difference in CEA-2010-A 2m peak SPL, depending on the frequency.
View attachment 385270

Thanks I'm under the impression the are the same driver and design so should perform identically. I was more wondering if I needed a second -pro to properly integrate them with my AVR (as opposed to getting a minidsp or something)

 

[CrypticSignal]

Thanks I'm under the impression the are the same driver and design so should perform identically. I was more wondering if I needed a second -pro to properly integrate them with my AVR (as opposed to getting a minidsp or something)

The SVS app that you can use with the pro model gives you more precise control in the sense that you can adjust the volume by 1dB increments and you can adjust phase in 1° increments. But your AVR will level match your subs during the Audyssey calibration so each subwoofer gives you the same volume at the listening position. However, if you like to increase the volume on the subwoofer's amp after Audyssey calibration, then the app is nice as you easily know how hot you're running the bass (in dB), but you can use a C-weighted SPL meter to ensure that you increase the volume of the pro and non-pro by the same amount, so even though the volume knob in the non-pro won't tell you how much you've increased the volume, the SPL meter will. I used a UMIK-1 and the SPL meter in Room EQ Wizard to level match my two subs.

The app also has parametric EQ and room gain compensation, but if you don't use these features (I don't), then losing these features with the non-pro version isn't a big deal.

 

[peniku8]

@sweetchaos I noticed the third frequency of the CEA-2010 specs is listed as 15Hz. Going up in third octave steps, this is 16Hz instead. Little correction